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McLeodGaming Mafia VIII [Pokémon] 
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What's mafia chat?


Thu May 17, 2012 9:13 pm
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And this time, I suppose, I'll post my reasonings. I didn't just come up with random numbers, you know.

Apparently, right now, you have several conditions you say you satisfy.

-You have won, but your victory wasn't publically annoounced.
-Your ability is Communicate (classic Mafia power-role?), but you're third-party.
-Your target is Brik, who "just happens" to be one of the Town's most seasoned players.

What's the chance of all of those being true? Not very high, I think.

And then there's the part where the Town is under the effect of the False Dilemma logical policy. Which says you're EITHER Mafia OR a third player who's both won and Town-aligned out of choice.

And then there's the part where you cite stuff that I don't even know is out there, as adressed in my really long post above. Since when was Dephius officially claimed to be Town. Etc.


Thu May 17, 2012 9:17 pm
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That was to DJ, by the way.

Quote:
Question: Why are you pulling numbers out of your a**?


lol, I'm not.

Mafia chat is the tool Mafia members use to communicate with each other. I think in the introductory guide posted in the first post it says Mafias can talk with one another. So yeah.


Thu May 17, 2012 9:19 pm

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Yeah... I kinda didn't read that.


Thu May 17, 2012 9:26 pm
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Oh, OK lol

DJ Wizard Cop, please tell me where I voted for Pachino (which you used as evidence against me), and where Deph was officially announced as Town-sided.


Thu May 17, 2012 9:30 pm
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I was never officially announced as Town-sided, but on Briks lynching it strongly showed that we weren't mafia brothers.


Thu May 17, 2012 9:32 pm
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I think DJ was referring to how I suspected you before that part.

Also, to clarify a previously made point.
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And then there's the part where the Town is under the effect of the False Dilemma logical policy. Which says you're EITHER Mafia OR a third player who's both won and Town-aligned out of choice.

Have we considered that he is third-party, but has not won yet? Or he already won, but is helping the Mafia?


Thu May 17, 2012 9:36 pm
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Right here, page 19.
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Brik leading the lynch of cactus made him the most suspicious of the bunch. Dehius tried to save him risking his life and claiming as the cop role, but no one would listen...everyone was convinced that the two were mafia brothers trying to help one another. Were they right? You bet they weren't.

This is as close to a confirmation of innocence as you're ever going to get.

Accusation of Pachino, page 6.
135 wrote:
Wow, that's a lot of time.

Anyways, does anyone here find Pachino suspicious?

Quote:
Yes, because I would definitely make myself that obvious this early in the game (believe me, I learned that lesson the hard way in MG Mafia 5).


Does that mean you're a Mafia who doesn't want to make himself obvious?

CONCRETE VOTE: Pachino

I'll address your other points tomorrow. 'Night

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Thu May 17, 2012 11:21 pm
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The first simply stated that they weren't BOTH Maifa. There's a possibility that it means both arn't Mafia, though, depending in interpretation, I suppose. I see where you're coming from.

The second one wasn't even a vote. And I don't really remember how serious I was being. Back at the start people were just doing stuff for the lulz.

'Night. Sleep well.


So...uhh...what does everyone else think? I'm tired of this being pretty much just DJ Wizard Cop and me.


Fri May 18, 2012 12:11 am
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135 wrote:
Quote:
Dude, you're scum. If the above assumptions aren't true then you would just hammer instead of using it as grounds for being innocent.

lol no. I wasn't certain enough to vote for you comfortably.
And that leads to why i asked someone else to do it. It's not so much gaming strategy as simply a mental thing.

That doesn't even make sense. The only difference between someone else voting for me and you voting for me is how scummy YOU look.
Quote:
Look: From Day 1 you throw out random accusations like they're confetti. Nixter, Pachino, Brik, Crabby and Cactus?
This is the first Mafia game you've done this, and logically it would make sense for you to behave differently and more scum like the first time you play as Mafia.

...Pachino? When did I do that?
Also, this is like, my third Mafia game. I think as a beginner, I could be expected to show massive changes in level of confidence. Or something.

Haha, nice try. This is my fourth Mafia game.
Quote:
Day 2 you immediately discredit Brik's claim for being a bad townie because Brik was an easy lynch with me pushing so hard. (For obvious reasons. I haven't actually been playing pro-town until Day 3.)

No. I discredited his claim because as one of the most seasoned players in the game, that excuse is not something I would easily expect from him.

Have you actually ever seen Brik play well as town? The sad answer is no. All his real accomplishments were done as Mafia. (MG 2 and 5)
Quote:
Then as soon as that stops working and Dephius doesn't like what I'm doing, you decide to put the heat on the UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP WHOSE INNOCENCE HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY THE GAME MASTER HIMSELF.

Wait. Since when was his innocence confirmed by the game master himself? I don't remember that heppening.
ANd I think it's reasonable to assume in a game like this, the cop could have been inactive. And I think yo'd agree I had reasonable grounds to suspect Dephius.

...Except that everyone playing back then and everyone playing now is active.
Quote:
Yeah, you're not sure because you couldn't convince everyone that Dephius was Mafia.


If I was really going for a mis-lynch, I THINK I wouldn't try something that audacious and then give up when Dephius WAS ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED.

Dephius was never about to get lynched. The only people that have come close are Cactus, Brik and I.
And look at me. I'm a "seasoned" player and I gave up when Brik was three votes from being lynched.

Quote:
And here is where you put some false reasoning for your attempt at a mislynch;

See above.
?
Quote:
So yeah, the Mafia has a Role-Blocker out there somewhere. How on EARTH do you know that? How can you be sure it wasn't a town roleblocker who made a mistake? Because you're the Mafia roleblocker is why.

Oops. Forgot for a moment that the Town had role-blockers.
And uh, no, I'm not the Mafia role-blocker.

That's a bit of an overly convenient excuse. Mafia games wouldn't be very fun if all you needed to say was "I'm not scum".
Quote:
And that's where you attempt to find a reason for Dephius being guilty and cover your actions.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Your initial reasoning for voting for Deph was shoddy. You then tried to come up with better reasoning. That doesn't really work.
Quote:
Dude, Espeon isn't exactly what I'd call a bad guy pokemon. Try Ghastly or that rhino one or Arbok.


Nothing to do with Espeon. I'm not that into Pokemon, so meh. It was based off his psychic ability. And well, how suspicious he was kinda being.
Ugh, Deph wasn't being suspicious at all. It's just because he was defending Brik, who wasn't suspicious either. He was merely being pressured by me with horrid arguments that everyone here likes to fall for.
Seeing this as an opportunity for a mislynch, you started a bandwagon on Deph, which didn't end up working.
I don't think everyone realises just how broken claims are in this set up.
The Mafia was probably given one safe claim at most, so they don't know which pokemon are just in the role list and which ones are actually held by townies. This makes claiming by the Mafia extremely difficult.

And not knowing pokemon isn't an excuse either. I've never played it and never watched the anime, but I read about for this game because it's beneficial for me and the town.

Quote:
Translation: If no one falls for my obvious trick, I'll give some ridiculous reasoning for it and everyone's happy. Right? Wrong.

Wong interpretation, as explained above.

Again, you can't just say stuff isn't true when the evidence clearly states otherwise.
Quote:
you're so suspicious of him and you think his claim was ridiculous, then how could you possibly risk offing a cop? Because you were trying to cause a mislynch, and no one fell for it.

Because I wasn't 100% certain. That's reasonable enough, no?

No it isn't. There is no way you could have been 100% certain Brik was Mafia, just the opposite, but you started the end bandwagon on him anyway.
Quote:
Translation: Sonicstormer, I know you're new at this, but you're my Mafia buddy so get in here before we have to lynch you.

lol if I were Mafia why didn't I use the Mafia chat?

C'mon 135, we aren't that dumb. Everyone knows the Mafia can only communicate at night.
Quote:
Translation: Well I mean even though I just posted a paragraph on why we should lynch Sonicstormer we shouldn't lynch him because he's my Mafia buddy.

OR maybe it was because lynching people based on inactivity alone is kind of risky.

OR Maybe if you were a townie you would have realised that 2 vote pressures are better than 1 and you would have been thankful Nixter was going along with your reasoning.
I mean if there were suddenly 6 votes on Sonicstormer I would have understood, but just 2? That's a bit much to accept.

Quote:
And then later on on Day 2, after I claimed lyncher and made Brik 100% clear, you START A BANDWAGON TO LYNCH HIM.

Again, I apologize for my experience. I suppose I wasn't really aware that being a lyncher automatically made one's target a Town-sided player.

The link to that tutorial on roles has been there since MG 1...
Quote:
What he means is Deph is an UnCC'd cop who got an inno on Brik, which is reason enough to defend him, but you've been trying to lynch Deph for the whole day so you see this as an opportunity.

And then there are a bunch of Day 3 things that just close your case tighter but I don't have time to write them right now.


Look at the language used in Deph's post. I think it's natural to think of it as suspicious.
Ah no. If you're a townie then ALL of you guys need to learn to tell new players from scum.

Comments in bold.

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Fri May 18, 2012 12:51 pm
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Quote:
That doesn't even make sense. The only difference between someone else voting for me and you voting for me is how scummy YOU look.


Except no. You're assuming Mafia is a purely logical game. It's not. It wouldn't be too much to ask you to consider how much pressure I have in hammering you, I suppose. Back then, I wanted someone else to contribute to the hammering, as I do now. Hopefully someone more certain than I am.

Seriously, if I played logically I would have already voted you. The evidence suggesting that you are Mafia is ENORMOUS. But of course, I haven't, partially because of the intimidation of possibly getting a mis-lynch.

Quote:
Haha, nice try. This is my fourth Mafia game.

Nice to see that you have stablized that quickly.

Quote:
Have you actually ever seen Brik play well as town? The sad answer is no. All his real accomplishments were done as Mafia. (MG 2 and 5)

Oh. I'm going to take your word for it on this one. Wish I had knew back then.

Quote:
...Except that everyone playing back then and everyone playing now is active.

Not really :/

Quote:
Dephius was never about to get lynched. The only people that have come close are Cactus, Brik and I.

People were voting for him without opposition. Yeah, he never got that close. Because I didn't want that to happen. I think he was two votes away, wasn't he? Or three.

Quote:
And look at me. I'm a "seasoned" player and I gave up when Brik was three votes from being lynched.

Not that you reminded me, your actions don't really match your win objective, does it? This seems like a slip to me.

Quote:
Ugh, Deph wasn't being suspicious at all. It's just because he was defending Brik, who wasn't suspicious either. He was merely being pressured by me with horrid arguments that everyone here likes to fall for.
Seeing this as an opportunity for a mislynch, you started a bandwagon on Deph, which didn't end up working.
I don't think everyone realises just how broken claims are in this set up.
The Mafia was probably given one safe claim at most, so they don't know which pokemon are just in the role list and which ones are actually held by townies. This makes claiming by the Mafia extremely difficult.

And not knowing pokemon isn't an excuse either. I've never played it and never watched the anime, but I read about for this game because it's beneficial for me and the town.

Pretty sure he was being suspicious. I think he is still being suspicious :<
It's just that evidence suggests that he's really the Cop.
We were pressuered by the deadline while voting for Brik. I think it should be understandable that people rushed it a bit. And I wasn't even the one to hammer on that one.
And yes, I read it too. I kind of gave up after being under the (wrong?) impression that Pokemons are fundamentally neutral, as wild animals. Sorry if that was a mistake on my part.

Quote:
That's a bit of an overly convenient excuse. Mafia games wouldn't be very fun if all you needed to say was "I'm not scum".

Well, that was what happened. I'm not sure what else to say, since I already told you what I thought. What is, is; what is not, is not.
Quote:
Again, you can't just say stuff isn't true when the evidence clearly states otherwise.

Which it doesn't.
Quote:
OR Maybe if you were a townie you would have realised that 2 vote pressures are better than 1 and you would have been thankful Nixter was going along with your reasoning.
I mean if there were suddenly 6 votes on Sonicstormer I would have understood, but just 2? That's a bit much to accept.

Given the recent Mafia games' history, I think it's reasonable to be wary of people following your vote. Those votes build up -quite- fast.

Quote:
The link to that tutorial on roles has been there since MG 1...

It has? Perhaps I missed something in there.

Quote:
Ah no. If you're a townie then ALL of you guys need to learn to tell new players from scum.

Yeah. We probably do.


Sat May 19, 2012 1:34 am
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Unfortunately, I will not be here tomorrow, due to Saturday school.

Ugh. This is terribly hard for me to do, but no one else seems to be wanting to take the initiative on the vote. I'm really conflicted as to whether to hammer, since my next post might not come before the deadline. I can vote, but my vote will not have been overseen by the rest of the Town.

Please, someone decide what to do.
And if you guys can't come up with a definite decision, go for the lynch. I will take responsibility for whatever outcome arises. I think the chance we take by far outweighs the drawbacks of a No Lynch.


Sat May 19, 2012 1:42 am
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And in case this might help in your discussion:
I support hammering.


Sat May 19, 2012 1:44 am
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I just can't get over the fact that

>You think I'm Mafia and the "evidence" is "enormous". (Then why don't you vote for me?)
>Mislynching me is "far better" than no lynching and you're in support of hammering. (Again, why don't you hammer then?)
>You won't vote for me for fear of being wrong. (If the evidence is so enormous, how could you possibly risk being wrong?)

That's a rather obvious contradiction, is it not?

Thing is, you want a hammer. Ok. That's reasonable.
You don't want a hammer for fear of being wrong. That's... not quite as reasonable considering the previous statement.
It's blasted obvious that I'm going to show up as a third party and the person who hammered me is going to look scummy.
Since you're scum, you don't want that happening. So, you ask someone else to hammer. Since they'll look scummy and you won't, you can lynch 'em tomorrow after you get rid of me.
That's completely preposterous.

Vote: 135

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Sat May 19, 2012 8:17 am
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Two posts above yours, second to last sentence.

Also, just realized that assuming we start with 9 Town-sided players, we'll need every town vote to lynch.

Ugh, Looks like I'll have to do this.
Vote: DJ Wizard Cop


If you're really Town-sided, I'm sorry.
But congratulations on winning. If you really did win.


Sat May 19, 2012 10:34 am
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