@Genis: If I had told you you were scum earlier while I was dealing with Doq, you would've immediately changed your actions and renderered my argument moot. Interference is only really good once you can focus on a single person at once.

If your scumread on Panthera's based solely on the assumption that he was trying to waste the day, then your argument is rather tenuous, as he stated shortly afterwards it was a reaction test designed to speed up the game. It is open to interpretation whether it was a convenient excuse: however, judging from his other posts, his overall intent seems more to help the town that to hurt it(for instance, saying that we shouldn't lynch Doq even though he's a fool even though if he's mafia that makes little difference to his wincon).
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Meanwhile, here's a summary of your play.
A SUMMARY OF GENIS' PLAY
Post 1: Discusses DJ's possible wrongness in voting for Geno, using the meta argument that since everyone does it it's rather unreliable. While I do agree with him in this case, what worries me is that he's not looking for intent and is instead using arguments as a tell, which in my opinion is very easy to mislead people with, as the quality of your arguments bears VERY LITTLE IF AT ALL TO YOUR ALIGNMENT(see TOWK's mafia play, for example). Also mentions setup speculation, which I would normally take as a scumtell, but from him it's probably null.
Post 2: States that he didn't know there was a disclaimer, not much content here.
Post 3: Equally useless post about forgiving DJ. I would argue that Posts 2-3 are attempt to look nice in order to be town, but I'm not familiar with his recent meta as much as I'd like so I'll have to read up over whether he tries to use emotion to override logic.
Post 4: Questions me on my scumread immediately after I say it's growing stronger. I can understand the curiosity, but considering he's not actively looking for scum that's a very serious qualm. Active lurking is one of the easiest things to get away with here.
Post 5: Tells Doq he should've read more, pretty much the same as Posts 2-3 in terms of motive.
Post 6: What I'm worried about with my own read is that since MG Mafia's meta is relatively risk-free(that is, people don't randomly make accusations often, and there are only a few exceptions), I could take this post either as an attempt to agree with the town's prevailing philosophy or genuine helpfulness, but it's very hard to do so esp. since tells I used to like to scumhunt with(for example, saying 'oh no our doc is dead' when the doc dies) don't work.
Post 7: Doesn't confront Panthera's argument head-on, instead choosing to laugh it off. Thing is, I would see his town play as arguing quite heavily against it(could be wrong though, must check meta), or at least attempting to argue that he's wrong(as it implies a Panthera scumread and, y'know, townspeople can be fairly defensive). This is part of the reason why I think meta is so important, as it's really the best way to discern intent when you're faced with a very 'safe' player, but this post doesn't bode too well for him.
Post 8:Again with the arguments. While I am completely for arguing to sharpen scumhunting, I am quite against arguing and then just leaving things like that. It's nice and all to argue, but DO YOU THINK SOMEONE IS SCUM OR NOT. I would have a very strong scumread on you for this, but I'm so out of touched with the current meta that I'm unsure whether it's even a mild scumtell or not.
Post 9: Same effect as Post 4. Will not explain further.
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OK so right now I think there's not much point in saying much more as it'd take a lot of time without strengthening my argument(since most of it is rather the same thing), but i'd like to point all of y'all towards his reads list.

I can understand that it's early in the game, but there are an awful lot of towns and nulls, and only a single null-scum read that he doesn't place a vote behind, especially since I said that his argument is tenuous and it just seems he's looking for a way out. I think he tried too hard to form an argument on Panthera when it's clear imo that the entire point of Panthera's no lynch vote early in D1 was to spark discussion and was not an abrupt shift to defend himself.

Reads list unprompted is one of the most town things ever(unless it's from me, where it's a null tell), but I take back what I said about reads list prompted, because I assumed the converse was true when it was wrong to assume so. Thing is, my original argument was that you'd answer it halfheartedly to save your skin, but I realized that townies want to save their skin as well, and thus I decided to judge you only on your reads.

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THIS NEXT BIT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT I'M USING THIS FOR THE TITLE: SETUP SPECULATION/MASSCLAIM
Let's not massclaim early, please. If we do, the mafia has such a huge advantage over us that it becomes almost comical how easy it'd be for them to pick their targets. Even if we did have all that information, role does not correlate to alignment etc.(basically sheeping Lucina here)
Thing is, I'm a bit suspicious that Genis chooses to go straight for setup speculation, since, experienced as he is, he'd know that it's one of the easiest ways to distract a town. Could I get clarification on whether it's his thing to do as town, please?
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There' s a lot of reading I need to do, and I don't have as much time as I'd like ugh

EBWOP

From the games I've played with him, he's usually one of the first ones to bring it up whether he's town or mafia so it'd be really hard to get a read on him solely based off that

Also, Genis what's your opinion on massclaim?

@Terra: Setup speculation is a great way to get the town to waste time. Asking them to read old games where everyone was less experienced and thus their "meta" shouldn't be considered is a fantastic one as well.

Vote: Terra

Please stop using meta. As far as Day 1s go, ours has been exceptional for content. If you want to spend your time reading something, read this topic.

1. Can you please explain to me what's so hard about pressuring more than one person at a time?
2. If you tell someone "lol i think ur scum but the reason is sekret " don't you think they're going to adjust their play?
3. Have you realized that the easiest time to look at every post from one person is the sort by author function on Day 1 when everyone hasn't posted a lot?
4. "Why I consider abrupt defensiveness to be a scumtell is another issue altogether." Please elaborate.
5. Why are you moving on to Genis, the "bigger fish to fry"? The issue with Doq is hardly resolved.

@Panthera: Please explain to me why, when I specifically asked you to answer a question you had previously dodged, you dodged it again by saying something irrelevant and I had to ask you a third time before you finally answered? (and a pretty poor answer at that)

True. Though I'm not suggesting people to claim who they are, just to say what they made up, but I understand your point. But that does give a possibility of using our knowledge of roles to at least confirm that that role exists. The only problem with that is if we use that information when someone's dead, we've lost information like that. But I doubt anyone's willing to talk about this anyway since earlier that just went passed everyone's head when I mentioned it hoping to get some discussion going, iirc.

Also, is everything I do literally a scumtell to you based on meta?


While it does give out a lot of information (granted, for both sides), it's probably too early in hindsight to do it. I was just suggesting to reveal what role each respective person has made since this is most likely the last time the whole town in its entirety will be alive in addition to how it's something else we can go off of.

I feel like for Terra, no matter what I do is a scumtell anyway. If I push for setup speculation he'll attack me, if I stand back because in hindsight it's not that great of an idea he'll attack me. I'm trapped either way.

Again, just revealing the role you made up is still giving the mafia an advantage since they would know what they're up against. The town wouldn't have the satisfaction since we're in the dark about everybody's alignments.

And the point about the whole town being alive: well, I'm not sure if this setup is no reveal or not, since I can't remember the host ever explaining that. If it is no reveal, then that would make sense, but if someone dies and their role is shown, someone claiming they made the role beforehand wouldn't really matter, right?

There should be some roles that would obviously be town sided (for example, a doctor). Otherwise, I understand what you're coming from.

And in fact, why don't we ask? Savy, is this a no reveal setup?

You're kidding, right? You do know there are mafia doctors, don't you?

We definitely shouldn't be revealing our roles lol
I don't know what kind of stuff you guys made, but the role I made has the potential to be incredibly useful for the town. If they revealed themselves, they would be the first to go.

I'm a bit busy atm but can someone point me to games where Terra was mafia? The only one I can think of is Smash but there might be more I'm missing.
I'd also just like to highlight this sentence from his huge post:

Pretty sure he was mafia with me and 194 in Mafia 11.

what. ok. sorry. no I don't. really sorry yeah.

And I made an incredibly useful role as well, though I don't know if Savy balanced it or not.

are we bragging about the roles we made now

this actually made me laugh

Not sure where you're going with this one. I thought the answers were satisfactory on my part, but I'll keep going:

When you started the weird tunneling on Geno, no one was aware of the disclaimer until TOWK pointed it out. As you kept going with shoddy reasoning attacking him instead of me, your suspicious-ness became "clearer and clearer". I'm not sure why I needed to wait five posts or more to use that terminology; according to you clearer and clearer "works better if you wait till the 5th or so, IMO."