I feel like at a really high level of play, flowmotion is more or less obsolete other than being a recovery mixup. Anyways, in my online experience I've found that no one plays Sora aggressive enough. His nair and fair can be used as short hop approaches and almost nobody does it.

Flowmotion is good for trying to catch whiffs or landings.

Used sparingly you have a surprise approach tool. Just dont try to use it all the time.

Flowmotion wouldnt even be that bad if neutral and back werent freakin grabs.

AAAAGGGGH This is the reason why I hate that move, and after playing Sora for a good bit (elevating to my 3rd most played recently) I would definately trade of that crap for other buffs.

So many Sora players rely on this move and it really makes him so dull. It's like Ganon Side B on crack.

The other 3 flowmotion versions are really good, but there's no reason to use them when the ones that are grabs also are the best for starting combos.

Im of the opinion that many things about Sora could really use a buff, but flowmotion requires a nerf. In this way I feel it will be healthy for the character's overall design.

Give him better a better grab game too and call it a day.

Flowmotion can be comboed into, does 30% in some continuations, and has guaranteed combos that can also lead into flowmotion. It's really not a bad move.

And it doesn't even have the "I SD with you" part that makes Ganon Side B fun.

Sora is a character with so much potential, but the flowmotion grab kind of takes the fun out of him for me.

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=39263&p=1364928#p1364928

Revised the suggested change list, please take a look.

Why all the buffs? Sora's not that bad and he doesn't really need too much improvement.

Outside of flowmotion he has a hard time getting in and starting those long combos (which are still pretty effected by DI) so Sora has to rely alot on that move to be effective. Outside of that move he doesn't have much going for him, and even though he can combo pretty well he has a very hard time comboing into those kill moves at a percent where they would actually kill them, which I understand is part of his character but has the side effect of making him require more effort than the rest of the cast in securing those stocks.

Notice that there was 2 sections of buffs. The first aimed to fix some problems that Sora had outside of his kill ability. The heightened up B (aerial only) was intended to both somewhat improve upon is sadnenning vertical recovery (which made him highly susceptable to gimps and low angles while he has to work way harder to kill at all, his current recovery abilities are disporpotional to the amount of effort it takes him to kill, hence the glass cannon that shoots glass comment) and to help increase his combo ability at high percents (he can combo pretty early, but once he gets to those higher percents he's at a spot to where its both really hard to do damage AND kill.) The air mobility would also help him maneuver around better so he can slightly better follow DI and be more effective in the neutral game, allowing him a better ability to bait air punishes. Strike Raid is currently a very lack luster move, a very short ranged projectile with lots of lag and easily destroyed, and its not even garunteed to lead into anything unless you hit JUST right. The buffs there are to help the move become a more solid part of his moveset. As for the grab range buff, his grab (sans f*** flowmotion) range is very crap, and a slight increase would really help him start his combos, along with making shield grabbing a little more practical.


The second pair of buffs are those I found aren't as important but would help his game out and make him a little bit more of a threat. The fair sweetspot knockback increase would not be very large, just to let him be able to adequately finish high percent combos and make his air game more of a threat. The Thunder meteor sweetspot is something that would rarely hit outside of a really good read due to needing a precision hit with thunder, which is slow and highly telegraphed and frankly just not that good of a move, and basically would be a hard to land surprise gimp option, as well as a ground bounce combo starter on stage. And let's be honest: Bthrow really freakin sucks, Sora really needs a reason to use it, and even if my idea is not accepted the fact stands that that move could use a buff regardless.


I don't believe that any of these things will break Sora, but will give him a little nudge to help him compete better with the rest of the cast. And also everyone will appreciate not being grabbed by a flying Sora bullet anymore, giving would be Sora players a bit more variety to their game plan.


Don't get me wrong, I don't think Sora is trash or anything, but compared to the rest of the cast he's pretty mediocre and underwhelming.


I picked up Sora a fairly long while ago to try to prove to myself that he isn't as bad as I think he is, I really want to prove myself wrong. But until then I stand by my opinion.

Gonna be honest tho, the fair buff might not be necessary after all, seeing as those other buffs both help his recovery and further augment his combo game. (a higher up B means having an easier time comboing into fair at high percents, so if said fair buff was added it might make it a little too reliable)

I still stand completely behind the other suggestions.

Not sure if it's just the actual length of the blade or not, but Sora's disjoint doesn't feel like it's properly disjointing. I can swear on multiple occasions I've hit with the tip of the blade only to get sent flying myself. I do like Sora right now though. I'd like the ability to cancel strike raid on command, if unwilling to increase priority, or at least shorten the punish window considering you're literally open for 3 seconds. I like flowmotion but it's best used as a tool you rarely use or as a combo extender. Sora, once he gets going, can put people at very high %s relatively quickly, although his only real kill moves are Thunder, Fair, Fsmash, and Usmash.

I'm mostly agreeing with Welfare's stance on the matter. Although I haven't given Sora enough attention compared to other characters, I do feel as if he needs a few buffs to put him on a decent level.

Your disjoint problem lies in his non-existant priority. I think Flowmotion is like his only real approach option as Dash Attack, Nair, FTilt and Fair dont work for me :-/

Welfare, could you share that Tier list you made with us? It would be great to know how better players think about the tiers and stuff. Or can I just look for it somewhere else?

I don't really live where that computer is anymore so nope.

I don't think anyone had the tier list actually saved, the IRC needs to try and recompose officially this time.

A funny match happened to me today. So it was my Sora against this guy's Sonic. The match was going and we were trading hits on the Battlefield. So we were pretty close to the edge when I used Sora's up-smsah and my opponent used Sonic's down special and because of the windbox my opponents character moved over the edge and went straight to the blast zone. I could just tell he was pissed.

Totally intentional. Next level mindgames.

Man the windbox on Sora's Up-smash is so useful. The up-smash in general is just good. Not only does it have a huge hitbox, but that windbox is great for keeping people away and messing up characters with bad recoveries like Naruto or Lloyd.