Dair as far as I know is a special case, in that it does actually autocancel with 0 landing lag if you space it correctly, but Tiger Blade -> dair does not give it 0 landing lag and will give you the usual 4 frames.

Each aerial has their own amount of landlag. If you land during a move's autocancel frames, you have 0 landlag.

I don't know if this applies as well to other characters but it might since you could potentially use it for a safe landing to a smash attack off a platform. I'm talking about dtilt dropping through the platform, specifically with Bomberman in this example.

When you dtilt drop with BBM's dtilt, it sends you at a fixed diagonal angle toward the ground, instead of straight forward along the platform like normal. However then end lag is the same so if you learn the angle you can position yourself on the platforms to dtilt drop>smash attack. It works really well with dsmash (you can angle the dtilt drop right to the very edge and dsmash. It's a viable edgeguard option I'll be working into my play)

If mastered I think dtilt dropping could even be used as a mobility option for BBM since most of the endlag of the dtilt happens when he's traveling through the air. On battlefield you can go from top platform>dtilt drop to lower platform>another dtilt drop to ground with nearly no lag.

I'm sorry if I was unclear and for those who don't know how to dtilt drop you need to have a sprint/walk button then hold crouch and attack + sprint/walk button at the same time while on a soft platform. Please experiment with your own characters and let me know if you find any useful set ups for the dtilt drop. Also let me know what you think of the BBM dtilt drop potential

UPDATE - A couple of useful setups I thought of are

Link(EASILY THE MOST APPLICABLE),Peach, and Zelda on ToS, Smashville or any other map with a soft platform offstage could dtilt drop offstage since all of their dtilts spike. For Link, don't f#uck that up because you'll down aerial to your death instead.

Naruto on any map with platforms could use a dtilt drop as an unexpected KO option since it's a kill tilt

why isn't there an explanation to why autocancelling gives off 0 frames of lag in this game? It's pretty weird. I guess that in a more developed meta people would land with the beggining frames of a move to autocancel and land with no lag.

so tiger blade > aerial gives 0 frames with the exception of Dair, which gives 4.

Well in the main smash games, auto canceling makes the aerial have the same landlag as landing without an aerial. In SSF2, most aerials have the same landlag as the character has natural landlag. Basically, auto canceling would not do anything. So, the debs decided to set it up so that auto canceled aerials have no landlag at all. So Lloyd's dair has traditional autocanceling, but does not have SSF2's autocanceling.

A Tiger Blade aerial gives natural landlag usually (because you land during helpless) unless you land during the aerial's autocancel frames. Tiger Blade actually is at the perfect height for this situation to come up.

Thanks for the clarification, I sometimes screw this up in my head.

For anyone wondering, this actually kinda nerfs float-cancelling, because it doesn't have the extra buff that auto-cancelling does: unless you land with a laggy aerial, it doesn't really matter what you did before you landed.

Funny enough, Peach can't autocancel any of her aerials.

Hello all, I have another strategy no one, including myself, seems to be using. It's for anyone who has a backthrow that kills and I think it could be good for getting unexpected KOs and putting yourself in a more favorable position.

I call it pivot grabbing and it's pretty simple to do. You run forward, then quickly run backwards and grab. It also helps to throw in a crouch during the turn around part, but it's not entirely necessary if for some reason you can't do that. It has to be done pretty quicky but any character can do it.

Say your opponent is at kill % near an edge with his back to it. If you rush him and pivot grab, it'll result in you ending up on the other side of him, with YOUR back to the edge. If you have a back throw that kills you're all set.

This tactic may also have use for forcing an opponent into the center.

Say your opponent is camping near an edge with his back to it. If you want to start a chain grab or combo going toward the center of the stage you can pivot grab and you're good to go.

I think it has tons of potential. Also if you think about it in reverse for forward throws that kill it has even more use!

Say your opponent is at around 80% percent, occupying center stage. You're near an edge with your back to it. If when he's approaching you, you pivot grab him, it will result in you ending up on the other side of him, with your back now being toward center stage and HIS back being toward the edge. This would put you in a favorable position to use your fthrow that kills.

Sorry if this is unclear...

The pivot grab dates back to smash 64, the turnaround grab (where you still have momentum) is from brawl. So while it is not a new discovery, I do agree that it is pretty underused. My other stream I was trying to use the turnaround grab to use Sheik's bthrow near the edge.

I find it is pretty good for beating spotdodge while you cover roll away, and well timed can be used to run past your opponent and grab them in shield.

Wow people know about this and aren't using it every single day? What the hell is wrong with you guys?

I see people use it all the time. But it seems hard to incorporate in this game. Position, timing all have risk and most times you could get a pivot-grab, you could possible go for a different, better option for that character.

And some characters just have such terrible-grab ranges that pivot-grab does nothing for them. It's useful mostly for fast dashing characters.

says, "Wah."

lmao I tested it mostly with my two chars Bomber and Falcon. Makes sense I'd find use for it over other people since both of them have crazy good initial dash speed. Mah b, didn't think to test with the whole roster. I kinda just assumed everyone pivot grabbed as well as Falcon or Bomber

By far the best use of turnaround grabs IMO is with Samus, because it's a godlike way of beating approaches that removes the main problem with her grab (the lemme-Falcon-Punch you endlag). BBM rocks with it too (too many bad memories of being semi-spiked and dying at 50%), and MK can use it too. Using it with Sheik seems risky because her recovery isn't the best and you are pivot-grabbing to the edge of the stage to use bthrow.

Actual pivoting and then grabbing isn't that useful in this game, because we can just dash-cancel anything and you sacrifice two frames for a ton more consistency.

Sorry for the quality of this gif but I think we all need to take another look at the potential of Perfect Pivoting. You're free to slide backward while looking forward, or approach backwards setting up for a bair or reverse fsmash. It can also be used to quickly turn your back to the ledge to bair edgeguard or whatever you want. Another option, the coolest in my opinion, is the option to move away from an attack without rolling. This means if you get the read and perfect pivot out of the way you earned a free punish in many cases

https://gyazo.com/1811a5bef404e5434c1907e9f2f44826 This is me doing it rather slowly. I know it's like 2fps but you'll get the gyst. If you master it you can do probably like 3-4 in a second. Think about that.

Many characters have use for this, not just a few