So did they nerf the meteor hitbox coming down? Because right now even if you do what looks to be good timing on running in after a meteor lands you still get hit because the explosion hitbox is deceptively huge and deceptively long. It covers such a huge area for so long when it has a little charge on it that it gives you so much time to do anything you want, and hopefully it becomes slightly more targeted. It'd still be great at pressuring shields and forcing approaches, but require a bit more skill and it would make some matchups a lot less painful for characters like Wario that have no way of easily approaching against a massive ball of hitbox that covers so much ground.

WTF, BM is pretty much one of the most iconic Glass Cannons in video games. Monk has more HP than BM and less powerful than BM overall. Even TVTropes and the FF wiki states that BM is FF's Glass Cannon. And most of Black Magic are Damaging spells. AoE doesn't mean they're not as powerful as Monk's attack, but it's more effective in the long run as while Monk easily caps his single-target damage out, BM can deal the same damage to ALL enemies in a single spell.

And Haste? what's the point in using it anymore? A tiny grabbox for 10% damage is not worth it especially with that amount of endlag in a whiff. And 2 hits? it's called HASTE for fricks sake! That's like making Falcon Punch form the shape of a baby pidgeon or Chomp just licking the opponent or a move that's supposed to make someone do twice as much hits than normal do 2 hits from like 6-8 hits (idk how many it had actually, animation goes to FAST). Frickin' Saber makes more sense for a name. I mean, Sonic is not the guy to deal HUGE damage Slowly, he does a LOT of quick his to rack up damage!

Now the only other things I don't like about Beta changes are the Poison Nerf and the lack of Super Armor in his DA.

C'mon, not even heavy armor?
Peach is also nerfed with the poison nerf, but mostly BM since it's "balanced" for it to do 2x damage compared to other throws that takes 4x longer to get the full damage.

Super armor is a very unbalancing mechanic, and in general I think the less of it, the better. It's a cheap way to make otherwise unviable attacks annoyingly good, and it circumvents a lot of normal neutral game in SSF2. As long as it has a little power and is at least viable on reads in neutral, I'm fine with it. I'll ignore the FF canon wars.

About the meteor hitbox: I'm not 100% sure about it, but I think it last a little bit less overall (there's no difference between the charged up version and the normal one).

And I'm not bothering with a discussion about FF canon, I gave my perspective and that's it.

EDIT: Also, you are seriously underrating Haste's usability if you think that Beta's version is garbage.

Rip in peperonis Alpharad
Mained BM 2016-2016



At least he liked Luffy and BD

I still think having no super armor on dash attack now is f*** stupid given how much of a commitment the move was

Did it need the armor frames edited? Yes

Did the armor needed to be removed entirely? No

Honestly they should of tried to give him nerfs that didn't remove the actual idea of the move, and they instead do this, I really just dont like the way they are nerfing a character who was already rather balanced compared to the rest of the cast

I say "I don't like the way they are doing it" because there is definitely a way to nerf things that need nerfs rather than just editing the whole move "just because"

Saying BM was balanced is a bit one-dimensional. He had serious jank and incredibly annoying things about him (dash-attack with super armor that lasts way past the stone animation, long-lasting freeze move with massive hitbox, one of the best projectiles in the game, Haste, and a really annoying nair that is very difficult to SDI out of. He also had some serious weaknesses (terrible punish game without edgeguards, super weak to rushdown chars, very glassy), so it cancelled out, but ultimately I think the problem was that a lot of characters couldn't do what they normally do against Black Mage because he had so much weird anti-meta stuff, which I think is bad design. Characters should have weaknesses and strengths to overcome them, but they shouldn't have any tools that the opponent's play revolves around. Meteor as an edgeguarding tool is good design: it allows you to punish a lot of stuff that other chars can't (so great strength), but it can be played around just like other offstage projectiles (reflectors and mixups). In that way it isn't super polarizing (although it certainly is a big factor in certain matchups). Meteor onstage is a good example of the opposite: against some characters on some stages, the whole neutral game revolves around Meteor, and that's it. The opponent's entire neutral game revolves around getting past Meteors and not giving BM space to fire them. That's not very good design, because it polarizes matchups and doesn't encourage creativity. A similar example would be Sheik's fair: it singlehandedly shapes entire matchups, as compared to DK's Giant Punch, which is amazing but allows the opponent to play to their strengths and has counterplay.

I will repeat myself: I don't really mind having no SA in DA, as long as the reward for landing it is decent enough (and I think it is in Beta), but at the same time, considering the whole theme of the move, some kind of armor would make a lot of sense. I still think that some kind of blocking mechanic like Ryu's Focus Attack in Sm4sh would work perfectly.

Kirby's Stone makes him invincible
BM's Dash A. only had super armor
Both moves turn the user into Stone

Now Beta removed Armor entirely...
"Logic"

But on a more serious note, a quicker move with KB-based Heavy armor or a more complex one that starts with SA but lowers throughout the move (because friction and negative acceleration, I guess?) would make it a pretty balanced move

Still better than BBM's current Dash Attack though

Sorry for being a bit late here, but how did we find out that BM's dash attack will have no armor at all? (If anyone has a link to that spot in the stream that would be great).

I hope the side Special won't get nerfed, I freaking love the side special.

Well, then I have bad news....

If I remember correctly from watching the stream, they even removed him turning to stone
He just falls on his face now, similar to Dedede
Makes 's Trailer not make that much sense anymore

I'm crying.

What kind of logic is that? Kirby's DownB and BM's DA are nothing like, that's a terrible comparison.



False.