Nope. Nothing here. Nothing here at all.

Mod plis delete this thread.

Thats amazing, your opinions are just, spot on man. Great job.

Uhh, why is Samus so high? Is she really that good, or are you just overinflating her due to some disproportionally high tournament placings?

We did a good job huh? :]

The reasons for the placement of characters are still currently being discussed. Our reasoning will be added to the post at a later date. Thanks for your patience

Do we even need reasons? If we need reasons then demand the Back Room for reasons.

Why is Zelda so high? I always considered her 7th or 8th

I'm in the BR, remember?

Other than her charge shot glitch, she's absolutely terrible. At high-level play, she literally has no redeeming qualities because her ranged game, which is the whole point of her character, gets beaten out by literally everything. Does she really deserve to jump 10 places due to that one glitch?

Zelda is a phenomenal character. She has the scariest kit in the entire game, with almost all of her moves being crazy kill options that can be combo'd into with very little effort. A bunch of her moves are very safe, making it really hard to punish her. Her grabgame is exceptional and she is very hard to gimp due to her great teleport recovery. Some bad MUs and subpar mobility prevent her from being any higher on the tier list, but she is still easily one of the best in the game.

You completely underestimate Samus's "hand-to-hand" play, like, absolutely. They are a lot of options for Samus (dtilt / bombs to begin combos, followups with uair, zair, bair, nair, fair...), against some characters she has a lot of edgeguard options, and she has a lot of zoning tools too (neutral b, zair, missiles, ftilt...). I also honestly think that the Samus meta is nowhere optimised now, like there's way too many things I could do better with her.

Just try a little harder to use the hand to hand tools, that's where your weakness is with Samus I think.

On the idea I agree with you though, in my opinion Samus has too many bad matchups against someone above/below her to be A-Tier on an August 2015 tier list. In the future I see her being here though.


By the way, I love this tier list overall, especially Yoshi's placement which is in my opinion, way better here :p There are some small things I don't agree with though, but I think it reflects the meta pretty well

:l

#foreverslepton

Why is Yoshi so low?


Yoshi is a phenomenal character who has been consistently incredibly underrated IMO, and a little love would I believe go a long way in taking names with Yoshi.

Yoshi has a recovery that is very difficult to edgeguard even with the traditional good edgeguarders because of the unique armor which renders entire classes of edgeguards useless. He has niche problems with command grabs, but that's about it. If you just up-B until you can get on stage with armor, you should really be fine.

Yoshi has an amazing combo game. He has one of the best sets of launchers in the game (ftilt being such an amazing move, and utilt, usmash, dthrow, uthrow, uair, and usmash are useful), amazing aerial mobility to follow up with combos and a great fair to bring the opponent back down to the ground to continue combos, as well as a great uair for juggling, a great nair for finishing combos and leading into stuff at low percents, and a damage-racking dair that can do a lot of damage even when DI'd successfully if you follow the SDI. Bair has some really awesome followup options when you cancel it before the last hitbox, following up into all sorts of goodies and combo extenders. Also of note is that he is one of the few characters who has a real combo game on floaties and lightweights.

Yoshi's neutral is definitely his weakest aspect, but I think his neutral is still solidly above average. He has some trouble safely hitting shields, but with his amazing aerial mobility and speed he can mix up his approaches and pressure really well, changing direction nearly instantly or landing on the ground quickly. Rising aerials are all safe on shield if you retreat effectively afterwards, and you can also land behind shields with falling aerials to keep yourself safe. Spaced nair is also usually safe depending on character, and spaced ftilt is often as well. He has a much easier time than most characters dealing with projectile camping and disjoints, because his DJ allows him to get in. Almost every trade is good for Yoshi because of his weight and exemplary damage output, so taking the damage from a clone isn't something to lose sleep over.

Yoshi's OoS options are not amazing but are not terrible either: OoS nair is the most important option, but OoS DJ and OoS jab/ftilt are also really useful. Also of note is that in a game without shield-dashing, many characters have no ways of punishing properly spaced moves on their shield. By contrast, Yoshi has a slow but long grab that can punish many reckless attacks. Yoshi is also immune to shield-stabbing, so shield pressure is more all-or-nothing.

Yoshi's edgeguarding is actually pretty good, just because he can DJ rising aerial to cover a lot of the more difficult recoveries to edgeguard (Tiger Blade, Dolphin Slash, Ichigo's up-B, Chibi's up-B) and he has the aerial mobility to cover options quickly.

As far as matchups go, I think Yoshi does very well and is pretty even across the board. As far as top-tier I think it's roughly even, with ZSS being a tough MU but Sheik and Zelda (in this tier list anyway) being pretty good to me. In general, I think Yoshi has a roughly even MU spread across the top tiers and getting progressively better as you go down.

So I ask: why is Yoshi so low?

Because they don't play him. Simple as that.

savage

A few questions : O


1. Is the list based off of local or online play?

2. Is the list based off of top-high level game-play? Or is it based off some other skill level, for example, that of the average tournament entrant?

3. Are characters ranked based on their inherent potential, or based on their representation in the community? Or is it a combination of both? For example, if there were no MetaKnight players to represent the character, but you knew full well his potential as you do now, would he still be ranked as high? If your list is, to some degree, based off tournament results, how do you account for the fact that certain characters are represented by much stronger players than others? If a character sees little to no representation by top-level players, how are they accounted for?

4. What makes Kirby 1 Tier above Sonic?