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Fox 
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tell me how i can improve my fox.

https://www.mediafire.com/?128yjubf7oyyojc

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Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:47 pm

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Really, it just looked like you had discomfort with the character. Fox is fast and technical and suffers greatly from mistakes and you simply aren't in tune with the character yet. Keep playing and you'll get there.
In terms of specific options, the most glaring issues were your weak Utilt followups and your lack of shine. Utilt -> Utilt is only a true combo at low percents, so you should go for aerials after your Utilts. And most times you go for Grabs, you can Shine/Multishine -> JC Grab which is a harder punish. Learning to walk instead of dash before executing options will keep you from flying offstage and just improve your spacing in general, and it wouldn't hurt to incorporate lasers during neutral. Also, I saw you go for Fthrow/Bthrow instead of Dthrows.


Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:46 am
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Welfare Wednesday wrote:
My thoughts really werent about the kirby matchup with the shine post.
But i heavily agree with your nerf ideas. I dont play fox at all but ive been winning matches with him online spamming bair and shine all over the place without a care in the world.


Honestly, i believe you can't judge a character by how many wins you have with latency, although i do see your point.

Fox does need some notable changes. From the looks of it he's based on his Melee form so he should have more Melee aspects without breaking the character.

- In SSF2 his Bair is much stronger than Melee, the hitbox is fine but the move doesn't become weaker at all after it's use. In this game this move is his "go to" attack for safe K.O's. This attack is less situational than Fox's Upair so it shouldn't be this powerful.

- In SSF2 Multishining is several times more easier to do than in Melee, making the move more accessible. I understand that the devs are trying to make this game more accessible, but that's part of the problem. Most moves are too easy to use with more benefits than faults. It's understandable that some of these attacks were misunderstandings and accidents but other attacks need to be looked into too. I feel the solution to this particular attack is to make Fox's jump animation slightly faster so Multishining is more difficult to use. Forcing the player to be more technical.

- In SSF2 his Uptilt is much better than in Melee. The obvious answer would be because in Melee you couldn't run and Uptilt at the same time. But there is more to it than that. I've noticed the attack is actually has more Knockback damage and hitstun than in Melee, so you can actually combo into it. So not only at the moment can you abuse the attack by sliding across the stage uptilting, but you can also get some real followup combos after juggling them. The easier solution would be to make the attack weaker in general.

- In SSF2 his DTilt is also better than in Melee. Yet again you couldn't run and DTilt in that game unless you're in your running animation. Unlike this game where you can use the move during the dash animation. I feel the move needs to be weaker because you can use it like this. If you couldn't it would be fine, but because you can it needs to be slightly weaker so it becomes less important. Or maybe you could make the attack send you up like in Melee to lead into a combo, or send them straight down. Not a spike, but a weak Meteor.

Those are my problems with Fox i feel need to be changed. This game may still be a demo but it is true that a lot of attacks need to be looked into.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:34 am
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This whole thing about Fox getting nerfed? Wow. Do you people realize how hard it is to win against a smart player with Fox? Not easy at all, trust me on that.

I see alot of characters that Fox flat out beats because of his superior options as a character, but that doesn't stop his recovery or defensive game from being complete trash. There are actually a ton of characters with options on Fox, if you get one good semi spike on him, he's dead.

Fox has, and always be, a glass cannon. It's just a matter of out playing him when you get a hit and carry it to the fullest.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:56 am
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Fox is amazing. His main issue is how easily he gets gimped/edgeguarded by the likes of DK, Marth, etc. But on stage he's a beast and if you can avoid the recklessness that can put you off stage, you have an advantage over pretty much the entire cast.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:30 pm
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Honestly, the only change to Fox at this point should be B-air becoming a sex kick.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:04 pm
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If Fox's jumpsquat was shortened, shine oos would officially be broken if pulled off correctly lol, it would come out one frame earlier than most grabs. But, fox's jumpsquat in this game is twice as long as his is in Melee, If it were reduced by one frame he would certainly become a lot harder to play in general.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:39 pm
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I think making Fox more difficult to play would be a little silly at this juncture considering how much more difficult he is to play compared to a lot of the cast. I mean, if everyone becomes more difficult to play, by all means.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:02 pm
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sparty88 wrote:
I think making Fox more difficult to play would be a little silly at this juncture considering how much more difficult he is to play compared to a lot of the cast. I mean, if everyone becomes more difficult to play, by all means.


my only gripe is his uptilt being n64 kirby levels of easy to use.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:24 pm
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Bomono wrote:
sparty88 wrote:
I think making Fox more difficult to play would be a little silly at this juncture considering how much more difficult he is to play compared to a lot of the cast. I mean, if everyone becomes more difficult to play, by all means.


my only gripe is his uptilt being n64 kirby levels of easy to use.

I could see that, but it should be up to the other player to keep fox out. It's not like he has good range.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:35 pm
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sparty88 wrote:
Bomono wrote:
sparty88 wrote:
I think making Fox more difficult to play would be a little silly at this juncture considering how much more difficult he is to play compared to a lot of the cast. I mean, if everyone becomes more difficult to play, by all means.


my only gripe is his uptilt being n64 kirby levels of easy to use.

I could see that, but it should be up to the other player to keep fox out. It's not like he has good range.


he's not exactly slow either

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:58 pm
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Except Fox doesn't rely on his up tilt to be awesome, he actually has tools that Kirby didn't have.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:25 pm
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Went link game 1, but there is plenty of fox play to enjoy lol. GGs to Zalosis

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:36 pm
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I don't think Fox will be top tier as long as there are characters that can zero-death him, which a large section of the cast can do (some more than others, but most on FD or on the edge). He lost so much in the transition to this game from Melee that I really don't think the buffs are unwarranted, and as long as multishining isn't viable to do consistently in tournaments all the time (for example, to deplete a shield), it isn't a major problem. Buffing his jumpstart makes him more technical (which I'm not sure is a good thing) but makes him much better because all of his Shine techniques are that much easier. I like Fox in this demo and I wouldn't support changing him too drastically. Making bair a sex-kick is a good idea in my book.

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Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:50 pm
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SoldierSunday wrote:
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeNa2uQo6yM& ]
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX5wVA-GWrY& ]
[ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5Y0ARlnJY& ]
Went link game 1, but there is plenty of fox play to enjoy lol. GGs to Zalosis


That second game on Back-airField doe, and those clutch techs!
I have known for a fact that Marth has the advantage on BF, but you made it look otherwise.

I personally ("prefer the air") think both- Marth and Fox are atleast top 10 characters, and that the matchup is like a 50/50 between both of them.

Great videos btw!

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Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:06 am
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