Edit: @ above message

I am not trying to be mean but you can be nicer how you say it.

Secondly many people have tried switching play styles. In fact when 0.9b came out people had to .

I mean all do respect with my message, but you can't just assume what people are doing or not doing. And nobody is really upset in a overly ridiculous manner. They are expressing themselves what they feel civilly. Again I am saying this in a respectful tone.

I wasn't trying to come off as rude lol
wasn't judging anyone specifically
just letting everyone know that Tails is still great at making combos happen

Oh okay. Sorry. Yeah I know you were trying to be rude. I just took it a bit harsh :/

But sorry

lol, please don't be sorry
this forum deserves more conversations

well, yeah he is actually better at combos this patch then last patch, its just the combos are far less interesting then last patch and he lost a lot of his edgegame and offstage viability.

Just saying you quoted so that I said that. And I didn't lol. TacThree said. I don't want people to yell at me if they don't like what he said.

Edit: I agree with what you said. I don't know if he is better at combos (I literally don't know) but everything else yeah

not sure how exactly everyone chooses to combo with Tails, so I'm asking why you think this (in response to bolded segment of your post)

well, in prior versions, when i combos with tails i felt like there were steaming paths i could take to change up my combos, but in this version i feel like once i start a combo, the combo will almost always have to be the same combo, expect for maybe the finisher. i also feel like the combos i have to do in this version are much less dependent on the opponents DI then the previous version, as if they DI one way, the lack of jump high forces out a single move, rather than giving me the option of other ones.

sooooo yall should answer this without dodging the question so i know what to do

@TSON

Sorry I would answer but I am not a pro. So I was waiting for someone to answer.

But based on my experience as a novice, that might be helpful. When I was playing with someone else that was one of my most frequent causes of death.

Wait, do you mean the character that is attacked is sent forward? or if Tails is after the hit?

It takes me a number(sometimes quite a few) of tries to pull off the tailsdash in practice. Techs are supposed to be hard, but 1/30th of a second of error...
I really hate this jump height nerf, and don't know if I'll keep playing Tails online. Back to Link, I guess.


Do Tails' jumps have to reset his momentum like every other character for coding reasons(i.e. it's a universal thing that can't be changed specifically for Tails), or to make his mechanics fit with everyone else who now has this? If it gimps his offstage range, maybe he could use a speed/maneuverability buff. I can't compare because of the incredibly low jumps.

Reverse Sideb->bair sounds like a good replacement for turnaround jump, though he may not keep sufficient height. Someone with more knowledge will have to answer that. As for the bair hitting forward, I don't quite understand what you're saying.

from my tests recently: turning around in the air doesn't actually make tails move far away from the point at which he wants to turn around. however, I can see that the problem people are having with the new mechanic and Tail specifically is that he can't move forward at a high speed, and turn around while still moving forward at the same general speed.
my way of getting around this is turning at the last possible (yet still safe) moment and doing an arial turnaround, but staying in the neutral horizontal location from where you did the aerial turnaround. doing this till allows the B-air to be fairly easy move to hit with for the edge-guard.

Now that I've put up my forum apology in a different section, I can talk like a normal person

Combo wise, his ground combo game still exists to a plenty decent extent, it's his air game that is difficult. That's mostly because of the jump height. With the jump height being lower you can either: go for a high height jump cannon by burning all your jumps, or you can go for lower height air combos. The combos still exist, but they only extend for a couple hits now without the heavy risk of losing all your jumps. When playing low lag games you can work with these jumps, but online, where lag spikes or slow spots can be commonplace, you will find yourself piling your jumps because of the games run speed trouble. I've encountered this many times online already.

The momentum change I don't expect to go away. That's something we will all get used to. bairs can still be done, they are just harder to do because the window of time is shorter.

@TSON are you talking about the bair pushing a target forwards instead of backwards? Or changing his fair command to be his bair? If it is the latter, I highly suggest against that as that would be to clumsly for people to control I believe. If you are talking about bair pushing a target forward, it actually can do that already. I don't know what part of the attack does it but it can be done. I've only pulled it off during aggressive offstage assaults, which I seldom do.

Just to reiterate, his ground game is fine, albeit his smashes are a risk. It's his air game that is causing our gripes. Y'all still did the right thing in giving this an attempt though, that's what betas are for yeah? To see if content is acceptable to players? (and content patches, debugging, etc.)

A thought in another direction though, would you consider making Tails dsmash launch targets similar to the way Zelda's or other such characters' do? I've had enemies at perhaps 130% or so that would get hit by dsmash (which I admit I rarely cast last patch) but unless I was doing a wavedash dsmash, they would get diagonally thrown into the air and survive. His fsmash already does that though. I think that's what they call a "sourspot" (I'm still learning smash terms. I don't know what a disjoint is still.)

I'm pretty sure that Tson was talking about giving Tails a "reverse attack-box" on his B-air.
so basically, if you hit with the part of his tail on the side where hi body i located, then it'll hit people forward instead of behind him like a regular b-air hit would send someone.

what is side-b carried momentum midair regardless of which direction you use it in, now that jumps made its old arial use obsolete.