Doubt that bbm and sandbag are that bad

Bowser is the worst in the game imo.
His smash attacks are laggy and are easily punishable, he's combo meat, and all of his aerials besides Nair have high landing lag. his only good move is Up B.

Have you like
Actually played the character before typing this


This isnt Melee lmao

First impression Tier list. I will edit later when i learn more as i barely know anything rn.

S tier
Falco
Fox
Lloyd
Meta Knight

A tier
Isaac
Marth
Sandbag
Sonic
Sheik
C. Falcon
Tails
ZSS

B Tier
Luigi
Pit
Mario
Samus
Waddle Dee
Goku
Mega Man
DK

C Tier
Zelda
Naruto
Ness
Pikachu
Chibi-Robo
Pac-Man
Link
Black Mage
Yoshi
Ichigo
Sora
Peach

E Tier
G&W
Bomberman
Luffy
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Wario

Kirby Tier
Bowser

Yes, but I might change my opinion on him when I play him more or when I play against other bowsers

tson's tier list:

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my first tier list:

Click to expand thumbnail

my current tier list:

Click to expand thumbnail

Had a long, thought out typed out explanation, but then it got deleted before i could post it. But after a few days, this is what I have an idea of character wise, yes there's a lot of characters I just have 0 idea about, I think most will improve with time. Anyway.

S: Character is very strong/viable- shifts from .9b or being introduced in beta allows them to significantly grow/be successful in the current game.

Characters in S that I think Decline: Falco

A: Character is strong/viable, shifts didn't hurt them too much or they have tools that are exceptional BUT some weaknesses. Have potential to grow but also to decline depending on the meta.

Characters in A that I think Improve: Lloyd, Luigi, Bandanna Dee
Characters in A that I think Decline: Peach, Isaac, Mega Man

Not entirely sure but regardless these chars seem strong. Some could go up but I think need more time/research, some could go down. Mega Man's a big one because his changes def make him slightly better than .9b but unsure.

B: Character is decent, either received some buffs from the shift to beta or generally improved. Still viable to use in tournament or untested. Some weaknesses are significant/causing poor matchups.

Characters in B that I think Improve: Luffy, Mario, Naruto, Jiggs?
Characters in B that I think Decline: Link

C: Character mediocre, weaknesses are significant, if buffs occured not quite enough to bump them up some, OR if nerfed their tools were significantly weakened. skilled players could be successful but most of time unlikely.

Characters in C that I think Improve: Pac-Man, G&W, Samus, Ichigo
Characters in C that I think Decline: DK, Kirby

D: Character not viable in current version of beta. Tools that made them strong in .9b were removed or nerfed, are either clunky or don't function as characters. still need help.

None of these characters really gained, only lost in the shift to Beta. Sonic, Ness and Zelda all feel worse than the rest of the chars in C, but could slip up there and are MUCH better than Pika/Yoshi. Pika and Yoshi are not viable characters at this time.


Being completely honest I am unsure on this, and it's simply a gut check from the past few days. Can say that B/C have the majority of characters that I am not sure of in terms of growth, but even then i'm only confident in saying that Link is possibly too high, and Luffy, Mario and Naruto might be too low. But time will tell.

The feels of hitbox are meh. They can throw off some veteran players from v0.9b at first, but can be relearned and how they will treat character playstyle will become mitigated with time. Still don't example how a someone like Marth that was neutralized, is somehow better when his playstyle and ability to perform is similar. Same with Meta-Knight; what made MK good isn't as powerful anymore, and he gained nothing that would make up for his lost otherwise. I think I would see it more if they were in A-tier with the other v0.9b veterans. Mario's previous match-up spread was decent, but somehow, he worse than all the characters above him that got nerfed, but he got nothing but buffs. He suffers from nohing big he was bad at before.

________________________
Dash-Boosting wasn't a meta defining at all and still gives certain characters small speed increases. It was more of a tech for long-distance travel chase opponents across the stage. The only character who tier-placement that is probably due to Dash-Boosting is Bomberman. While other characters got only slightly to one speed-class faster from boosting, he was increasing his max-dash speed by 20% (thank you), moving him several classes up in speed to match Fox's.

Also, nerfing it doesn't do much when many of the character that used it most got increase run-speeds faster than their dash-boost ever was to begin with (Mario, Marth, Peach, Ichigo, etc).

Dash-Cancel, however (which is far more important for movement for the meta in-general), still exists. Basically Cactuar-Dashing, but it has more utility because the traction in this game to give us versatile options of dashing. And it's simple for lower-skill players to perform. Not using this is like not wavedashing in Melee.

ppl are underrating bm imo, hes still p good and possibly has the tools to be better than mid tier

Make sure u play gax first lol

Right now i'm seeing comments in youtube videos for a 1.1 beta update that tails right now is the best character 1v1 (not actually what they say I think, but it's what they're making it sound like to me).

I've never fought a tails online yet so idk lol.

Edit: Also, Bandana Dee has a HOO HAH?? (smash 4 diddy kong refrence)

My n**** made this and it's fine

bbm aint crap guys

So after getting some experience with with some characters I decided to Update My tier list

SS Tier
Isaac
Fox
Falco

S tier
Lloyd
Meta Knight
Marth

A Tier
Sandbag
Sheik
Waddle Dee
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Tails
ZSS
Mario

B Tier
Pit
Luigi
Goku
Samus
Mega Man
DK

C Tier
Naruto
Ness
Zelda
Pikachu
Pac-Man
Chibi-Robo

D Tier
Link
Black Mage
Yoshi
Ichigo
Peach

E Tier
Bowser
Luffy
Sora
G&W
Wario
Jigglypuff
Bomberman
Kirby

I feel like a lot of people overrate Bowser and Luffy tbh. Both characters are still good but Bowser is combo meat and his recovery is mediocre and Luffy's moves extend his hurtbox which really hinders his against projectile characters and characters with disjointed hitboxes.

I don't really know much about Bomberman tbh so I still need more experience with him.

I probably overrate Sonic so he might drop later in my tier list

wat