Except you have little to no reason to use Dsp since it's slow as balls and doesn't have much practical use, it's almost as a** as Guardian and that's saying something.

Tech chase. That's all.

Yeah good luck with that, in a game where there's barley any legit tech chase game.
Auto badly designed move.

First: That's a little risky, even with the auto-cancel landing. Dair's travel speed is a bit too slow to use as an approach. And you can predict where Lloyd will land after the Tiger-Blade, Rising Falcon, and then punish. Just thinking of being sparing and using safer approaches.

Second: I can't help but get this feeling that every time I point out a tip or a bit more information on top of what was previously stated, you take it as an insult to your person or player experience. I'm sorry if I am misinterpreting that.



In regards to Grave Blade: the move as a tech-chase is just okay, but nothing large is gain from using it that way either. And as Yoh said; tech-chasing isn't that strong in this game, at the moment. You could potentially use it as an anti-zoning move though. It can also be a decent move to throw out once in a while unexpectedly, but not good to use often. And most time (in Smash Bros.) you want to main a control of some type of air-space and stay airborne. That's mean Grave Blade won't be very viable being a ground only moves that only hits grounded opponents. It's a bit too situational in its current state and made even more useless as everything else about Lloyd is really strong. He can approach offensive and play runaway with Demon-Fangs too.

Grave Blade is amazing, guys. The mere fact that is exists means that your opponent has to jump more often than they otherwise would, and that's huge for a character with such powerful anti-air and air-to-air tools. Once it's established as a threat, Lloyd can seriously get as much if not more from not using it than from using it, just because it exists. Not to mention that it's a free punish on an opponent's landing or on any whiffed ground move with more than few frames of animation.

Regarding tech chases, Dthrow is the way to go. Grave Blade is a free follow up if you predict their tech option, which they only have three of because the same Grave Blade timing beats tech in and tech away. The most beautiful thing, however, is getting another follow up like a regrab because you've conditioned them to fear the Grave Blade.

Also hit confirming into a juicy combo or a KO move from across the stage is just delicious.

Long story short; Grave Blade is an incredible move.

That's where I need to stop you the attack has literally no use, outside of Down grab setups and even then you can escape that setup at times.
And using it to make people jump? That's a bad idea since a good amount of this roster has amazing aerials that are much better then Lloyd's options. I see Grave Blade as a noob punisher honestly. Managing to even hit someone with a brain with is nothing but a miracle lol since the most you'll get out of it is online against people with delay.
Honestly its a poorly designed move. It has literally no symmetrical appeal towards Lloyd's move set, the concept behind it is dumb, and simply the fact that the range of the move is infinitely across the horizontal dimension w/ no traveling for the move to be done (start up is semi a**, good for people who have brains) is simply more evidence that Lloyd is just another Sheik tbh.

Long-explanation:
This does not matter. For one, Smash is a very air offensive to beginning. So most players fight with a awareness of ground-game to begin with. That be said, most match-ups involve too much airborne play for Grave-Blade to be utilized. It's start-up is too slow, it's damage is too low for a true a worth benefit. It's like a worst version of Donkey Kong's Hand-slaps.

The move also does not dominate ground game either. It can be shielded, rolled, and spot-dodged. There are plenty of options to avoid the move besides jumping.

But this doesn't work unless it's on Fox and DK. When hit by Lloyd's Down-throw, or Forward-throw even, DI upward. This is literally what everyone I face do. The hitstun of the throw will end before you hit the ground, meaning you can double-jump and avoid it. Grave-Blade only covers ground options. This why it isn't that great of a tech-chase option. Why would you use of Grave-Blade for tech-chasing when Full-Jump Double Demon-Fang, Dash-Jump-Cancel Up-tilt, and Dash-Attack cover tech-chase options better? These options don't just cover the ground ones as teching or missed techs, but also jumping, or an attempt to air-dodge. They're much better multi-option-selects over Grave-Blade.

But it's not just that Grave-Blade isn't his best tech-chase option; Lloyd doesn't need t worry or try to tech-chase. He's not good at setting them up first of all, and tech-chasing gives your opponent an opportunity to escape a punish or damage if they guess your option correctly.




Too-Long Didn't Read: Why would you gamble with tech-chasing when Lloyd has dozens of other options that give him a guaranteed combo follow-up and damage. . .

How would you guys suggest playing against a Lloyd? I find it hard to stop him when he's endlessly throwing out f-airs and such.

I'm not suggesting that Grave Blade should be used to force a jump. I'm saying that the fact that Grave Blade is an option makes being on the ground much less safe than it otherwise would be. I should have been more clear. Grave Blade itself is not an incredibly powerful offensive tool. What's amazing about it is that it renders a good chunk of ground options invalid, restricting the opponent to an aerial play style. Aerials are a hugely important part of Smash, granted, so this doesn't cripple anyone. However, it does make many options more predictable simply because fewer of them are viable. Not to mention that every character in the game has to land at some point after committing to the air. If Lloyd's other options can't punish them, Grave Blade will often be able to fill that gap. This is the power of Lloyd's down special.

Regarding down throw, I play primarily against a Donkey Kong main, so many of my setups may be matchup-specific. I have used it against other characters, however, so it's certainly viable against certain DI choices. While DIing Lloyd's down throw up can avoid Grave Blade setups, it does lead to other things. That's another example of Grave Blade coming into play without actually seeing use.

You're over thinking it. You don't need to play any particular way around Grave Blade because of how slow and garbage it is.

It's a pretty great move lol

You can't just throw it out randomly and expect it to hit a competent opponent, and you shouldn't be able to. The same applies to most long-range options on any given character lol

Doesn't make it garbage though. It fits in quite well with Neutral-B, and the two kind of compliments each other in usage.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, I probably use Grave Blades more than back airs, back throws and forward throws combined.


Sorry if you felt so, but it's just that I'm somehow always making people understand/view it differently from what I had in mind :3. Such as, my Tiger Blade into dair isn't approaching, it's when I can finally land a grounded Tiger Blade, which can sometimes link into a dair.
I don't take people's tips as insults, it's just that they don't think about the same thing that I was pointing to. So yeah, sorry if it sounded rude or something.

Except it doesn't.
For the type of character Lloyd is the attack doesn't suit him at all.

I guess it wouldn't make much sense if you try to play him like Marth :/

Since there're not a lot of professional Lloyd players to go off of, I'm not sure how to establish this, but it really seems Lloyd plays similarly to current Mario. At least, that has been the most effective play-style I've tried. Neutral-B and Down-B both are used to maintain pressure and create openings, and Lloyd moves in when he has the opportunity. Down-B hits through certain options that are used to out-Prioritize/ reflect Neutral-B, while Neutral-B discourages Short-Hopping against Down-B.

Because y'know his only real kill attacks are Fair,Utilt or Dsmash, no s*** he's going to have a go to Marth play style. Lloyd honestly plays nothing like Mario unless you mean you play him like a braindead character. Normal B is basically all Lloyd really has to create an opening and even then it's medicore, and as I said anyone with a brain will know how to avoid Grave Blade.