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Your Religion? 
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No, I have faith in my chair, I see it.

Also it's not necessarily true. I have faith in Christianity, others have faith in Hinduism, they cannot both be true

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Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:42 pm
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|~DVDV~| wrote:
Dang it, I just woke up :P


Poor you. :P You'd might want to take some coffee.

|~DVDV~| wrote:
I'm pretty sure we have a theological definition of faith: complete confidence in a being or plan. Works for me. A lot of people take faith to be unjustified or at the very least 'a leap of faith' whereas that isn't always necessary.


What I meant to say was that there is much disagreement what faith actually means (which is very obvious :P); it is possible to create varies definitions of faith and to argue in favour of one over the other, but there is not enough evidence in the Bible to exactly determine what faith actually is.

It can be defined as broad as "a vague belief in some sort of deity or life-force" to as narrow as "a conscious and strict adherance to a very concise set of beliefs".

A definition of faith is very important regarding the issue of predestination: who is saved and who isn't? Since I'm more of a classical or even an ultra-orthodox Calvinist on this particular issue, which means I strictly maintain that it is far too speculative to assign to anyone whether that person is saved or not, I'm also not very likely to accept one particular definition of faith. I personally favour more liberal interpretations of the number of the elect, but I nevertheless am open to any number ranging from one to all.

|~DVDV~| wrote:
I don't know what you mean by probability is one


It is a mathematical method of writing chances, 1 corresponds to 100%. If I toss a coin, the probability of the cross side ending up facing upwards is .5. If I toss a die, the probability of the one-eyed side ending up facing upwards is 1/6 or approximately 0.1667. So it is just an arbitrarily difficult way of saying that if a Creator exists, that is an entity with sufficient power to create (an omnipotent God would obviously have sufficient power) and that entity wants to create a universe and puts the necessary effort (if any, whatever it may be) to it, the universe is bound to be created.

|~DVDV~| wrote:
The funny thing about the big-bang is that so many people say it disproves religion, no one asks 'well where did the big bang come from?' a question that really points to God, the concept that a whole Universe coming from nothing all by itself.


Some people are then quick to abandon causality; while abandoning four-dimensional causality is okay in metaphysics, it is not when it still regards the physical universe.

What I also find ironic, but also a bit disappointing, is that the Big Bang is often rejected by orthodox Protestants. The Big Bang is actually valuable in discarding several materialist notions of the universe (the universe is infinite, it has no end and no beginning).

|~DVDV~| wrote:
The stuff about God in space-time I'm not so comfortable with: God made space-time, therefore he can be outside of spacetime (though without having made a closed universe; impacting it, holding it together etc.)


Actually, I meant to assign the quantity of spacetime in a different dimension as to be free from space and time, I think it is basically the same idea but with different terms.

In that case, it would be like the correlation of the following views:
[*]Hell does not exist, people who would be assigned to Hell would cease existing.
[*]Hell does exist, but Hell is cessation of existence (annihilationism).

Both convey a very similar notion of Hell, but they have fundamentally different views on the question "does Hell exist?".

|~DVDV~| wrote:
Who created God? Revelation 22:13 says
God wrote:
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end'
ie. he was there from the very beginning, not the beginning of everything but before that. For someone to have made God, they would have had to be around before that.


I actually meant that part as an invisible opponent, in order to be ahead of any people criticising me for ignoring that important question, often championed by the like of Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (or "Ditchkins" as referred to by Terry Eagleton).

So I would agree with your views there. :P

|~DVDV~| wrote:
Regarding your theological view, in agreement, I forward you to 1 Thessalonians 5:21
Paul wrote:
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
ie. don't follow anything blindly, the verse before it,
Paul wrote:
do not treat prophecies with contempt
which I take to encompass all miracles and the like.


Paul certainly was a thinker who preferred sound criticism indeed.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:55 am
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Villerar wrote:
A definition of faith is very important regarding the issue of predestination: who is saved and who isn't? Since I'm more of a classical or even an ultra-orthodox Calvinist on this particular issue, which means I strictly maintain that it is far too speculative to assign to anyone whether that person is saved or not, I'm also not very likely to accept one particular definition of faith. I personally favour more liberal interpretations of the number of the elect, but I nevertheless am open to any number ranging from one to all.


Just throwing this into the mix: predestination or preordination is being called to do something before coming to earth, if you don't do what you are supposed to then it goes to someone else.

Villerar wrote:
|~DVDV~| wrote:
The funny thing about the big-bang is that so many people say it disproves religion, no one asks 'well where did the big bang come from?' a question that really points to God, the concept that a whole Universe coming from nothing all by itself.


Some people are then quick to abandon causality; while abandoning four-dimensional causality is okay in metaphysics, it is not when it still regards the physical universe.

What I also find ironic, but also a bit disappointing, is that the Big Bang is often rejected by orthodox Protestants. The Big Bang is actually valuable in discarding several materialist notions of the universe (the universe is infinite, it has no end and no beginning).


I actually think that the Big Bang is a product of god, because of one of the aspects...organization.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:56 am

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nephitejnf wrote:
Villerar wrote:
A definition of faith is very important regarding the issue of predestination: who is saved and who isn't? Since I'm more of a classical or even an ultra-orthodox Calvinist on this particular issue, which means I strictly maintain that it is far too speculative to assign to anyone whether that person is saved or not, I'm also not very likely to accept one particular definition of faith. I personally favour more liberal interpretations of the number of the elect, but I nevertheless am open to any number ranging from one to all.


Just throwing this into the mix: predestination or preordination is being called to do something before coming to earth, if you don't do what you are supposed to then it goes to someone else.

Villerar wrote:
|~DVDV~| wrote:
The funny thing about the big-bang is that so many people say it disproves religion, no one asks 'well where did the big bang come from?' a question that really points to God, the concept that a whole Universe coming from nothing all by itself.


Some people are then quick to abandon causality; while abandoning four-dimensional causality is okay in metaphysics, it is not when it still regards the physical universe.

What I also find ironic, but also a bit disappointing, is that the Big Bang is often rejected by orthodox Protestants. The Big Bang is actually valuable in discarding several materialist notions of the universe (the universe is infinite, it has no end and no beginning).


I actually think that the Big Bang is a product of god, because of one of the aspects...organization.

Oh god what

Have you ever looked through a telescope? There's no organization at all.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:14 pm
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There would need to be if the big bang actually happened though.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:01 pm
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Big Bang Fails.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:10 pm
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Captain Blueballs wrote:
Oh god what

Have you ever looked through a telescope? There's no organization at all.

There is.

Stars can be classified.
Stars are parts of galaxies or satellite groups which can be classified in several groups according to the Hubble classification.
Then galaxies can be classified into clusters.
Clusters can be classified into larger groups, like the Local Group.

The notion that what you see at the night sky with a peek gives you a good insight on the organisation of the universe is very geocentric.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:15 pm

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Villerar wrote:
Captain Blueballs wrote:
Oh god what

Have you ever looked through a telescope? There's no organization at all.

There is.

Stars can be classified.
Stars are parts of galaxies or satellite groups which can be classified in several groups according to the Hubble classification.
Then galaxies can be classified into clusters.
Clusters can be classified into larger groups, like the Local Group.

The notion that what you see at the night sky with a peek gives you a good insight on the organisation of the universe is very geocentric.

Those groups tend to be random: That's not God's organization, that's humanity's obsessive need to classify things.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm
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I love how topics can be so dearly personal, and yet, people still post "HEY GUYS HOW LONG IS YOUR PENOR MINE IS 9 MILES LONG LOL!" Seriously, why should people know each others' religion?

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:24 pm
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Zero wrote:
I love how topics can be so dearly personal, and yet, people still post "HEY GUYS HOW LONG IS YOUR PENOR MINE IS 9 MILES LONG LOL!" Seriously, why should people know each others' religion?

WOAH, GET THE f*** OUT OF THE FORUMS. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:24 pm
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Ok, sir, calm down, no need to be frustrated over such a sudden return.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:32 pm
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Zero wrote:
Ok, sir, calm down, no need to be frustrated over such a sudden return.

Couldn't you have made your return a little more grander, Zero?

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:38 pm
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Meh, I had a feeling people wouldn't give 2 poops if I made my epic return here, and made a topic about it. Sure, I'll do it, if you want me to.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:40 pm
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Only if you plan to stay.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:41 pm
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Okay. Until I regain my hacked Xbox account back, I'm staying.

Back on topic, religion is just too personal for one to speak freely of.

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Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:48 pm
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