1.) He doesn't get bother by 's projectile but i'm talking others like samus and MM for example even link (i'm not saying link is top tier).

2.) Even if they do, i'm just pointing out a weakness

3.) yep, one of the main reasons I hate the MK vs bowser and MK vs donkey kong MU lol.

4.) look maybe on page six where someone asked me what moves were laggy besides f smash, I responded saying up tilt, down tilt, side tilt and jab (those were answers from mew2ube though when I was talking to him about MK).

5.) I say "besides edge guarding" just to make sure people don't think i'm saying he suks and has no good advantages like edge guarding, stuff like that.

I would like actual frame data for down tilt? Because that's one of MK's fastest moves in my opinion

Actually when I asked this in discord for the fastest move, I was told it was N-air, but i'll try ask for it.

I thought jab was 's fastest move.

Idk tbh lol, just ask here cause they told me N-air is the fastest. https://discordapp.com/channels/2583213 ... 9090128896

Gonna be totally honest.
Darkrinorex is really. and I mean REALLY pinging my "Casual" alarm. This is just hurting me so much to read.

MK kills at a good %, especially with Uair->UpB chain that he inherited from smash4.
MK combos super well with his disjointed everything
MK is fast with autodash
MK has 5 jumps on top of all this
He has advantages in the neutral, punish, combo, mixups, KO games, and excels offstage.
and you're saying he needs buffs

as for his fastest move that would be UpB

The only buffs I wanted as said before is what I realized should be called "Balance patches"

Like when I said buffer, laggy ground game (up tilt, side tilt, i'm actually not sure about down tilt tbh).

blind spot on grab (i know other characters have it and it should be fixed too imo).

I know he's fast and has a lot of advantages.

If your getting mad, that's your problem for being mad at me for having an opinion on something that I think should be fixed.

The most times i've gotten up air to up b string is when the person is at early % but it doesn't kill (i'm glad for this)

At higher percent you can hardly get the 3-4th up air to connect to the 2nd hit of up b (or the up b at all) to kill cause of DI, Or is that wrong? I'm still learning this combo when it comes to DI, but I have hardly (probably never unless you count CPUs LOL) ever gotten the 3rd or 4th hit of an up air to fully connect to the 2nd hit up b to actually kill). Unless you mean this just for floaties.
I'm honestly done with discussing this at this point.

I know his advantages and disadvantages, again just the stuff I listed many times before is what I think should be fixed and that's what I meant as a buff the entire time ever since I copy pasted the issues MK has that mew2ube talked about.

On the topic of Meta Knight's tilts (I don't really use Meta Knight all that often maybe a new palette and some more frames of animation would change that, but but I did use him a lot in Brawl and Smash 4 since I like him as a character);

Side Tilt's lag is fine IMO aside from the first and second parts, they should have less lag so it functions like an actual jab (Since Side Tilt is literally just Meta Knight's equivalent of your-average-characters jabs but mapped to Side Tilt because Meta Knight really loves flailing that sword of his around, no clue why--it's not really in his character to just flail wildly--but y'know,) the end part is perfectly fine to me because why would you even strike the 3rd hit unless you already got 'em with the first two, so just reduce the lag for the 1st and 2nd parts of the move and I'll be happy

I have 0 clue about Down Tilt's use but considering you (darkrinorex) are seemingly fine with it it must be useful for something and it was incredibly rapid-fire in Brawl/Smash 4 and I thought that needed to be toned down anyway, so I'm fine with the current situation

Up Tilt is kinda slow though IMO, not being rapid-fire is nice but it should have a little less lag on it, would be appreciated

Imo, d tilt is a really good move you can combo with and stuff, so I honestly don't think that should change, that's just me though.

Mew2ube said it was laggy, but I honestly think is fine. The side tilt you talked about I agree with (actually, I agree with everything you said lol).

MK has really fast, disjointed aerials and a great dash-short hop to compliment that. He doesn't really need his grounded tools too much, outside of Dtilt. His grab is a way better tool most of the time, and short-hop Uair is a better option than Utilt. Frankly, if those tools became even safer/faster, it would take away a weakness he has in neutral play of a rather average/predictable ground game. He doesn't really need anymore tools to get opponents in the air or deal with pressure. As others have said, he's definitely top 10 with a well-balanced and designed kit. The buffs you want don't really aid anything he doesn't already have, and may serve to make him overtuned as the meta inevitably fades away from projectile-based characters and settles even more on disjoints and edge guards to close stocks safely/early.

The only things i'd like to be changed about MK are 1: Reduce the number of hits on his jab per button press (to make it actually good for jab resets); and 2: Change his d-throw (i don't like moves that are just for tech-chases)
But that's just me.

Ummm, no. He's already one of the best characters in the game. He's certainly not a low tier who desperately needs help to be competitively viable; he already is (and not like "skilled Roy" competitively viable, like melee marth competitively viable). You're not "balancing" MK, you're not giving and taking, you're just giving him straight buffs. That's not a balance patch, that's a buff.



I absolutely agree, and I'm near the lower end of that grey area between filthy casuals and professionals.

Having played the guy, he's not a casual. (Although IIRC our game count is pretty good for me...)

When you play a character, you tend to focus on their weaknesses: when I play DK I notice getting shut down by lasers far more than noticing when they die at 60% from bad DI. When I play Fox I notice uthrow-uair kill percentages far less than getting gimped. It's natural to want to buff those weaknesses because you don't necessarily see your strengths.

It's also bad design IMO to straight nerf characters: nerfs should always be giving a character a different, slightly worse tool in the place of a good one. A good example might be Lloyd from 9b to Beta: a lot changed, so it's harder to notice the nerfs. Because of that, thinking of cool buffs to give a character is an important thing to do, so that if you want to nerf MK a bit you can still give MK mains something to be happy about.

So no one in top 10 needs a buff right? Ok then fine (getting mad at me for asking for a buff/balance like this is pretty funny to me lol).

If you 2 thought what I said for my opinions made you mad, you for sure don't wanna see the dreamland discord LOOOOL.

TheCodeSamurai, have I played you before? or were you talking about someone else (mew2ube?) .

Manta, after what you said, i'm done talking about this at this point lol. made good points (though i already knew them) but yeah i'm done talking about this and moving on.

Haven't we played before, darkorinex? At least in doubles?