so you're just f*** with us now

good to know

Link also has a crap a** recovery, while Toon Links is very good. Link dies very easily if he's knocked back horizontally, a HUGE disadvantage for a character with a fast falling speed, hes not getting any higher i assure you. Maybe 1 or 2 spots higher, but dont expect any more than that.

You have to consider survivability when determining tiers as well, Links is just bad.

How about a proposal of a tier list that rates a character's Power and Abilities, rather than tournament gameplay.

yeah, you're pretty much just dead wrong on everything you said.

thinks kirby is good in melee. thinks pikachu is bad in melee. thinks yoshi is bad in 64 smash. thinks kirby is bad in 64 smash. thinks link is the best character in 64 smash. thinks snake is the best character in brawl. thinks toon link is no better than link. thinks lucas is better than ness.

yeah, there's just so much out of place on what you said that it isn't even funny...

If you rank characters on power and ability, rather than some dumbass gameplay, there would be TONS of differences with the tier list.

what are you

what are you even SAYING

Yes thats true, but it would make no sense to use such a list, because you need GAMEPLAY in order to win matches. Therefore GAMEPLAY is needed when determining tier lists. Without it, its just an ordinary list of characters, which is meaningless to the competitive setting.

which is what tier lists are based off of
competitive play when put into tier lists doesn't really do much
i mean the only thing they do is remove the overly-gimmicked stages (tier-wise, i have no problem with anything) because that adds far too many variables that make creating a tier list almost impossible (or at least i'd assume)
just because link is low on the tiers does not mean you can't beat meta knight with link. it's just really percentages. math. if you roll something 5 times and it has a 20% chance on landing on a particular side, you should have mathematically had it roll on that side once.
does it work that way? no, not exactly.

Wh... what?

>Playing a game competitively
>Gameplay doesn't matter

I was going to stay out of this, but... how the f*** does that work? Where would we go if we didn't have actual gameplay? Like... what logic dictates that a video game is not judged by it's gameplay?

Here is what a tier list for SSB64 would look like based on power, speed, accuracy, jumping ability, weight, knockback, and range only.

List:

S Tier: Link/Ness, Captain Falcon
A Tier: Fox, Luigi, Donkey Kong
B Tier: Pikachu, Mario
C Tier: Samus
D Tier: Yoshi, Kirby
F Tier: Jigglypuff

Reason:

Link: Amazing power, great attack speed, amazing accuracy, above-average jumping, good weight, amazing knockback, and amazing range with special attacks and F-Smash.

Ness: Amazing power, good attack speed, great accuracy, great jumping, light weight, great knockback, and great range with NSpec, U-Smash and D-Smash.

Captain Falcon: Great power, great attack speed, great accuracy, above-average jumping, good weight, amazing knockback, average range.

Fox: Good power, amazing speed, good accuracy, amazing jumping ability, lighter weight, great knockback, but below-average range.

Luigi: Great power, slow speed, good accuracy, amazing jumping ability, light weight, good knockback, small range.

Donkey Kong: Amazing power, really slow speed, good accuracy, bad jumping ability, heavy weight, extraordinary knockback, great range.

Pikachu: Good power, amazing speed, good accuracy, below-average jumping, light weight, below-average knockback.

Mario: Great power, slow speed, little accuracy, average jumping ability, light weight, average knockback, small range.

Samus: Good power, really slow, bad accuracy, above-average jumping, heavy yet floaty, bad knockback, average range.

Yoshi: Bad power, good speed, poor accuracy, amazing jumping, light and floaty, good knockback, small range.

Kirby: Poor power, good speed, poor accuracy, amazing jumping, very light, poor knockback, average range.

Jigglypuff: Poor power, poor speed, poor accuracy, great jumping, ultimately light, poor knockback, small range.

Points:

Link/Ness: (20)
Captain Falcon: (18.854)
Fox: (15.448)
Luigi: (14.999)
Donkey Kong: (13.751)
Pikachu: (12.542)
Mario: (10.893)
Samus: (7.327)
Yoshi: (4.231)
Kirby: (2.153)
Jigglypuff: (1)

Mario is an all around character at best and worst, so i'd say all of that would be average

He's not slow, but not fast, his fireball and F.L.U.D.D. gives range i guess(?) and his attacks are normal
...though he's so well rounded that the damage given seems to rise quickly

Uh... he's talking about 64, bro.

Ah. Well then.

Carry on.

Why is he talking about accuracy in a game like this, this isnt an rpg, attacks dont miss unless you werent close enough, or the opponent dodges. In that case it is more based on range and speed. Accuracy has no place in this game, unless you mean for projectiles.

pikachu is beyond OP in ssb64
i realised this when i was five years old, tierfags realised this years later
this guy is a troll, carry on folks