After having a few more matches with Tails, here's my take on him.
- Tails fair got a 1% increase in attack power from 11%-12%. Contrary to some beliefs, kb was not increased. I'm still killing at 140-170% with it.
- I'm not really experiencing a profound change with dair. There is a bit more kb and force behind the attack but nothing that really becomes anything for me.
- Phoenix Wright is correct in noting that momentum is reset when turning around during a jump. However this isn't helpful for Tails for two reasons: Tails was already able to reset his momentum by tapping sideb making this unnecessary for him. because of Tails' nerfed jump height and height duration, you spend all your jumps chasing a target offstage for a very short distance which is way to risky compared to the other 3 floaty characters.
- Nerfed jump height was apparent. What probably isn't apparent is this idea: Why would Tails get a jump height nerf whilst MK, Jiggs, and Kirby don't experience such a change? I would not argue with Jiggs and Kirby, but MK is also a speedy character, would it not then be balanced to lower MK's jump height as well? His jumps also don't allow you to float for very long, causing you to need to burn up jumps to stay in 1 spot for a decent period of time. I'm aware of his 3rd jump height increase so here's my thought on that...
- 3rd jump height increase does not make up for the lost jump height because if you are attempting to attack with it and you miss, you will be in the air longer, causing your opponents to have an increased opportunity to catch you. On a more advanced note, when doing a wavedash attack with it, your height increases for that attack as well. This has mixed results as it allows you to get on platforms now, unfortunately you will find yourself from time to time wavedashing over your opponent's head, leaving you open to attack.

My overall take is that this Tails is worse off than the previous patches Tails. Bomono loves his new dair, but all the unintended nerfs that Tails got just aren't worth it. My cannon rushes are gone, I can't reach an opponent that is knocked into the air too high, I have to use 3 jumps just to make it back to the ledge after doing a backair over it (previous patch was just 1) and I'm unable to perform spindash attacks from high in the air unless I burn all my jumps and even then I'll still have no height to speak of.

I don't like complaining because I try to find satisfaction with what the devs are trying to accomplish, and they are doing a great job, but this general nerf to Tails' mobility wasn't worth the attempted buffs. I wouldn't ask for Tails' old jumps back along with this new height for his 3rd jump. I highly recommend that Tails jumping style be reverted to it's former style and have 3rd jump height reduced once again. I originally figured that this could be a balance scheme since Tails is rather quick, but I immediately dispelled this after using the other 3 floaters. Tails was comparable in air movement to MK, but now he is of a lesser breed. Unless Tails' ground game is sped up (which sounds rather inconceivable, how would that be fair to other ground players?) I truly feel that his old jumps allowed him to use his attacks best. This nerfed form of jumping has caused me to need to spam sideb more because all of my old air options are gone or way too risky. Spamming sideb is not fun nor is it balanced.

Edit: I wonder what ya'll think. I feel Tails should be excelling in the air. He has fast ground attacks, but his ground killmoves have high risk or high endlag. Sorry that this here post is so long but you have no idea how much time I put into mastering a playstyle that is near completely gone. Nearly 500 online fights amount to nothing at this point.

Im with Rem on this one. Boneman style is not a fun style, plz fix.

I wonder if spindash should have it's kb weakened? It's just a thought, but it doesn't kill, and it knocks things away, so it doesn't combo. I can live with it either way, but I wonder nonetheless.

It actually does combo ... Unless of course you based your opinion off of match ups involving light characters
You'd have to play pretty differently

But against heavy characters, it's really easy to use spin dash in combos

Based on my TAS vid, it combos into itself up to three times from 0%. After that, you have to do something else to unstale it, then spin dash combos into tails dash -> upsmash for instance.

I know about those combos, it just doesn't always succeed like before, unless you spindash to fair, which never fails.

I'm aware that it combos into itself from 0% Mr. Wright, but I'll never forget SS ragequitting a match because someone did that to him.
I admit it feels a little dirty doing it yet oh so gratifying~

I bet it's like Lloyd's dash attack last demo to the person on the receiving end lol.

It's been a rly long time since I've dragged someone with sideb, but depending on how heavy you are, you won't get out of it. Computers can get out, but that's because they have super fast inputs to counter you.

its true. tails is so worthless now with his jump nerfs.

the fact that his double jumps stop momentum is simply awfull. tails benefitted imensely from being able to off-stage Fair someone, then while keeping momentum, do a turnaround jump and do a Bair to finish. now he cant; in fact his best off-stage fiisher is useless now.

and his jump height.... seriously. i need sometimes 4 jumps just to go from one Pokemon Stadium platform to the other. why? why on earth was this nerfed? now his recovery sucks, his off-stage game became suicidal, and juggling is next to impossible.

what truly confuses me is in what sense of the word "balance" have the devs "balanced" him... tails is a no disjoint, high-skill high-reward character with glass cannon properties similar to those of Fox. in fact, i played tails basically as a safer version of Fox. rushdowns and all. but if thats what stands for balance, then explain Meta Knight.

- same airspeed than Tails.
- now has almost 2x the jump height.
- can glide
- has the biggest proportional disjoint in the game.
- even faster and with higher priority attacks than Tails
- super safe recovery; you can go under FD like its a walk in the park.
- insane air game that converts into off-stage wall of pain, gimps, and off-screen drags.
- very fast smashes and finishers with very high knockback scaling
- has multiple ways to lock characters, something tails cannot do to any competent player.

*snif im gona main Link now.

-MK actually has the second worst air speed in the roster, Tails sits around the middle.
-Yes, if not better
-The glide sucks (as far as glides go), but hey a glide is a glide.
-Yes
-Faster, yes. And of course, the high priority is because of the sword.
-Super safe because of options. MK has great aerial combat, great jumps, several moves to choose from when he wants to recover. Tails' options are very limited, for sure.
-Yes
-Yes, although with the exception of up-spec not easy to land.
-What do you mean by lock in this context? No character can "lock," at least not the extent of some of Brawl's locks. At most a move combos into itself a few times, not to kill percents.

Balance isn't easy, and while players see things as "What were they thinking?" any balancer/dev would not say the object was the push a character into k-tier. You just need to look at Ichigo last demo for what happens when something gets missed, developers decide that this is the direction they want to take things and sometimes they work out and sometimes they fall flat.

Not all characters are equal. There has to be a best character, and there has to be a worst character. These assumptions are all made when considering tier lists. MK's design, even his nerfed one in this game, is still a great design for a powerful character.

I do think Tails' jump nerf was big. I think that he can still do jumps backward (just be careful with inputs, like doing WoP with puff's bair. If i was changing him, i say he needed an increased ledge grab box on his up-b from last demo, or maybe some more height. That's all. Think about the good competitive aspects of the change, that was probably the plan it just didn't work out.

Fat foxes arent aerodynamic

Hmm.. I think I agree with Rem. Besides the d air (which wasn't improved that much), Tails feels worse. The main problems are the jumping for me. It has been hard to follow up aerial combos, and the short jump makes using back air punishable (it drags you to the bottom). Then Tails is hard to use on the ground for that matter with ridiculously high kill percentages. If you try to attack on the ground you get punished, but going in the air is hard to do also.

I actually liked Tails in the last patch tbh. But there were some nerfs that made him unviable in certain areas. Like spin dashing and down air. The things that were adjusted I don't think anyone had a problem with besides f air, and down air which haven't changed that much.

The only part I think I digress about with Rem is that I think Tails should be proficient on the ground also as well as air. Like able to do more of your ground moves wihtout getting killed. Because at this point, everytime you use a ground move with Tails you are in dangerous water. But I understand that with devs that always has to be a worst character no matter what even with balancing (not saying Tails is the worst, just that you can't make everyone great), and you need to accommodate everyone, not just Tails players. But I just think this patch is more a nerf to an already nerfed Tails with slight benefits. Thanks for your feedback BTW.

Edit: Should mention I am novice so if I say something that is a mistake forgive me, maybe I just stink :p

would you like me to make it so that bair hits forward in the front next patch? i can't get rid of the new jump momentum because it is something that exists in official smash titles and makes every other character feel much better, though. or you could try doing a reverse sideb into bair which feels similar to old patch's jumps.

i dont even use bair and i can feel the pain when trying to do any non standard combos that i would attempt to do in the previous version, it feels like the combo game was changed entirely, and is reliant upon a techable move, that basicly puts tails combo game into a techase game. i dont liek the new tails that much, and i think i'm just gonna start playing fox. the new tails just not fun, i feel like i have to think even less then i did before. its not that i'm playign worse either, im playing much better then i did last patch, but i feel so dumb in doing so, its like i have to play dumb to get far in this version of tails, and edgegames are absolute hell with the lower jumps, its almost not even worth doing anythign besides a combo into dair, otherwise going out of the edge to edgaurd is just too dangerous vs anyone who is not a fastfaller.

@everyone
seriously?
I played as Tails last night against my friend (who isn't amazing yet, but he's better than the average player) who uses Kirby.
I was able to get combos easily.
I think everyone just has to wake up and figure out how to actually combo with Tails instead of doing the same "combos" that you've all been abusing from the start.
If I'm able to get creative and start combo'ing, surely any of you are able to