This wasn't even listed in the patch notes;

Something's fishy

Kirby is simply put broken.

https://giphy.com/gifs/EBnKB164ngcCI
First off, this.
If Kirby copies Getsuga Tensho, it will affect every character alive no matter the distance. Furthermore, it's always the fully charged one without the charging.
Kirby always wins against Ichigo, as long as he uses Inhale to copy.

https://giphy.com/gifs/cyL56D0tsXiwM
This Rasenshuriken is a bit off. It's a Roomba, basically. Goes along the ground, does about 2% damage with minute knockback and range.

I wonder if this Ichigo copy ability glitch is gonna be banned in tournaments

Lookin' like 64

I doubt this was meant to be a thing. Seriously though, I hope the devs catch this soon. Believe it or not, but it's not very handy to not have that second swing on standby if you just so happen to miss the first hit.



When you say broken, you do mean somewhat unusable, right? Because I'm sorry, but I don't feel like Kirby been completely fixed/buffed. I appreciate the buff to Hammer and his side smash, but for the most part it felt like he got nerfed.

FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!
His Down Throw angle changed completely ruined his potentially amazing combo game and removed his hammer kill confirm. And his Up Throw got significantly weaker which makes his grab game nearly useless unless you are near the ledge for a Kirbycide. Even with more kill moves, kill power, and range on some moves, he STILL has a worse neutral with his nerfs.

You're all wrong.
In previous versions, Kirby's multihits had no trappability and Fair's hits didn't interpolerate due to a lack of knockback on fair's weak hits. Also, his bair is back to being as good as it was in 9b. Use bair on any character at 100%. You'll see what I mean.
In previous versions, Kirby's dair had a terrible hitbox and not enough hitstun to connect to his ground game. Now that multihit dairs have a landing hitbox, you get that guaranteed bit of hitstun to combo into grab, fsmash, and even bair.
Spit bair is back to being viable.
Fthrow>dair is a true chaingrab up to high percents on many characters, such as Bowser, DK, Falcon, and spacies.
Uair interpolerates into uair, bair, and fair even better than before.
Fsmash has less startup, making dair>fsmash a viable option.
Kirby's dthrow got nerfed, but that was the *only* nerf he got, and it was a necessary one as it would give him too many strengths and not enough weaknesses.

Now shut up before you get him nerfed back to unviability.

Fair has more trapabiloty but STILL is laggy.
I noticed Bair is better for killing and reach but all it really did was replace Up throw as a kill option.
Dair is better but it's still not a good move in neutral imo. It has kill confirms but it's not as easy to land a dair in neutral to confirm a kill like kirby's down throw to hammer was.
Spit feels the same and followups from it can still be avoided.
F-throw to dair may be true in low percents but there is now way the chaingrab lasts up to high percents since you do escape f-throw combos at 30% by DIing away. Even on heavies and fastfallers the can still DI but at a later percent.
Dair to F-Smash is a thing and F-smash does have better startup but it's also more punishable with 3 more frames of end lag. But F-Smash is still definently a better move with better kill power now.
Down throw was not the only thing was nerfed. Up throw has nerfed and no longer kills. He also revieved other minor nerfs but those aren't worthy to mention so I won't even mention them.
More strengths than weaknesses with Down throw unchanged? Lets see Kirby's current strength and weaknesses.

Strengths:
Low Crouch
Good edgeguard game
Bair
Copy abilities help in certain MUs

Weaknesses:
Light and dies early
Lacks range
Cant approach
Horrible air speed and mobility overall
Gets camped easily
Poor grab game
Poor combo game
Getup attack does no damage

If Kirby had his down throw And up throw from 1.0.2 he'd still have a bunch of weaknesses and only 1 overpowered strength which is an hammer confirm that kills super early, but he would be around low or lower mid tier still.

You tell me to shut up before I get him back to unviability yet you don't realize that Kirby is STILL unviable.

Not really. It has plenty of active frames, and it's a multihit, which means it can cover techs and rolls. Besides, Fair isn't really that laggy and it shows if you try to space with it.

Compare Kirby's grab range to bair's range. Now compare the amount of things that set up into a grab in 1.0.2- to the amount of things that set up into bair. Actually, I'll do that for you.
.2 grab could be set up into by inhale as a mixup (making taking the utilt the only viable option if you're at high percents and nobody would be so dumb as to fall into grab at kill percents) and nothing else.
.3 bair is set up by uair, dair, and spit. Those are all true combos. Trust me, this is the better alternative.

It's not supposed to be good in neutral, it's a punish/combo tool. Grab was never good in neutral. See Kirby's grab range for reference.
Also, if you want kill confirms off of a grab, see fthrow>inhale-spit>bair.

See 9b where Tlord got results from Spit>bair just because of Inhale's insane range. This is balanced.

I said on heavies and fastfallers for a reason.

I'll admit, Fsmash has 2 too many frames of endlag in my opinion, but once again, balance. It is indeed a better move now, so that's better.

As stated before, uthrow doesn't have to be a kill throw. If you want a kill confirm off of a grab, see above.
Also, state the minor nerfs. All are worthy of mention here.

I think I should throw in he has good multihits and can cover techs and rolls with relative ease with dash attack alone. Also, kill confirms are in bigger quantity than .2-.
Also, I feel like throwing in there that his combo game is great. He can combo with all of his aerials, and he has strong combo finishers like bair and fsmash.

Kirby's always been light and died early, he had worse range in .2, he at least stands a chance of approaching with Fair now if you space it right, Kirby's always had terrible air speed but his grounded mobility more than makes up for it, Kirby's always been camped easily, Kirby doesn't need to have a grab game if he can't get a grab in the first place with his terrible grab range, Kirby's combo game is actually good (see above), and you're absolutely right about getup attack. It's been like that since 9b iirc, and they seriously need to fix that.

If Kirby had his down throw and up throw from 1.0.2 which didn't make him any less unquestionably unviable, he'd still have a bunch of weakness and only one extra addition which is a DI mixup of dthrow>hammer and fthrow>hammer. His weight wouldn't be fixed, see his grab range if you want my two cents on how his range would be improved, he wouldn't be any bigger of a threat in the neutral in terms of approaching or anything else because see his grab range for my two cents on that, his grab game would be existent but it still wouldn't fix his grab range, having grab game wouldn't fix his aerial mobility, and it wouldn't make his combo game any more open because his more open combos are up in the air (literally).

Wrong. Kirby has weaknesses that make him mid tier at best, but they're the same weaknesses he had in 9b in lesser quantities, and if you want proof that 9b Kirby and by extension .3 Kirby are viable, see Tlord. If you go through enough tournaments, you can find his 9b results here: http://thesplit.challonge.com/pt_BR/users/tyranitarlord
Now seriously, shut up before you get him nerfed back to unviability.

I meant fair being laggy in twrms of end lag. Sorry for not clarifying earlier

Grab had multiple uses in 1.0.2. It could down throw which combos into an aerial no matter the DI, ane can occasionally lead to high damaging combos. It could also set a down throw to hammer kill combo. It allowed to kill with up throw depending on the character and stage and it could set up a suicide kill with forward and back throw (and still does). It is as useful if not more useful than 1.0.3 Bair.

9b results isnt 1.0.3 results so that is irrelevent

I know i said fastfallers and heavies escape f-throw combos later but they still escape pretty early.

Kirby doesn't have any useful combos outside of low percents other than Dair -> F-smash or aerial move, but dair isn't a good move to use often so you won't get getting that combo often either.

Down throw in 1.0.2 at least had true combos no matter the DI for a very long time in terms of percent and had a true kill confirm. If they decode to DI up you get free up air juggles, and they were likely to DI upwards so they can try to avoid Down throw -> Fair. Sure, it wouldnt fix his other problems but it would heavily improve his combo game, amoint of kill setups, and neutral.

Again, Kirby is unviable anyways so it wouldnt matter if I did shut up or not.

I love how everyone is crying about UThrow not being a kill throw anymore when it really wasnt one to begin with strength wise

I meant fair being a spacing tool in terms of you being able to use it at some point during a full hop and fastfall to just barely hit your opponent with the tip of the hitbox while landing on the ground, negating most endlag, and since you've knocked your opponent back, the endlag doesn't even matter anyways. Sorry for not clarifying earlier

Grab had multiple uses in 1.0.2, but no range or setups to allow any of them to be used. It could down throw which had plenty of DI-dependent mixups as alternatives to fthrow, and could occasionally lead to absolutely nothing because .2 Kirby's air game was trash. It could also set a down throw to hammer kill mixup, although it was just a DI mixup, and if you want a DI-dependent mixup that combos into hammer, you can just try uair>hammer, although dair>utilt>hammer is much more viable and reliable if you really wanna pull out the big guns. It allowed to kill with up throw depending on the character and stage and that made ti completely useless in most situations and it could set up a suicide kill with forward and back throw (and still does). It is nowhere near as useful as 1.0.3 bair, let alone dair, as dair does all that dthrow could do and more, and bair is a solid kill move with a lot of range that doesn't have the dumb amount of startup lag that hammer has.

9b results will be a good predictor of 1.0.3 results because .3 Kirby is basically 9b Kirby with a faster running speed, a faster dtilt, a slightly better dair, and nerfed range on inhale and final cutter. They still share the same playstyle, strengths, and weaknesses.

I know you said fastfallers and heavies escape f-throw combos later but they still escape around 60-80 depending on the character, meaning you can get 60% off of one combo, getting your opponent to just the right point where bair starts hitting hard enough to the point where it becomes a pain to deal with.

Kirby doesn't have any useful combos outside of low percents other than spit>bair, spit>fair, dair>bair, dair>nair, dair>fsmash, dair>utilt, utilt>any aerial move, utilt>hammer (true btw), uair>uair (mid percents), uair>bair, uair>fair, fair>fair, and uair>hammer (DI mixup, since you seem to like those). That totally makes him unviable.

Down throw in 1.0.2 at least had true combos no matter the DI for a until mid percents and had a mixup kill confirm. (insert explanation here about it being a mixup despite you explicitly saying "true combo" a bunch of times. I'm not even gonna explicitly mock that, just point it out). Sure, it wouldn't fix his other problems, like the neutral, because the neutral is the war of positioning and attempt to get the first hit in and has nothing to do with a throw, which has to do with the punish game because the punish game is the act of exploiting the one hit you get in and capitalizing off of it until you end up back at the neutral, and although having a good grab game might affect the neutral in that they respect your grab, it means once they learn to avoid grab, which *is* an act in the neutral, since avoiding grab is laughably easy to do in .2 due to Kirby's grab range, .2 Kirby is out of options without his grab. Kirby has never had a good neutral game, but his .3 punish game is still considerably better than his .2 punish game due to how open it is and how many options he has, and even his .3 neutral game is considerably better than his .2 neutral game due to how bair is now a threat that you must avoid and respect in the neutral and how fair is a good spacing tool now.

Again, Kirby is not top tier material, but he's viable and remotely playable now, so I advise you to shut up before someone gets the wrong idea and nerfs him back to his .2 self. If you want a Kirby with a grab game, go play Sm4sh.

Kirby will never be good in ssf2 (just like in any other smash game). This is sth that I already accepted.
And Kirby never was "top tier material", he is by defaut "trash" in any Smash game (except 64).

• The only thing ssf2's Kirby has right now is attack potency and ground speed, but he still lacks mobility, air speed, and has many predictable attacks (like his Final Cutter).
• Also, Stone takes f o r e v e r to hit someone. Final Cutter is too predictable and weak. Inhale lacks range, which makes Inhale>Kirbycide not only a "not too good" option to a "please don't" option. His grabs also have low range and are way too easy to DI out.

And, being viable=/=being good. No one's asking for a Top Tier Kirby (That is impossible). What we're asking about is a good balanced one. One that has it's weaknesses balanced with his strenghts, not only "oh, there you have it, this move is a little buffed but this one is also nerfed". That's not how you balance something. I hate .2 Kirby. But I don't really liked .3 Kirby as well.

Yes, Kirby's not a bottom tier anymore. But it doesn't means he is a balanced, or even a good character. He has too many weaknesses and still lacks many things.

That is rather sad. You don't need too many buffs actually to do a balanced Kirby. Give him extra mobility and some buffs here and there.

I'm sorry if I sounded disrespectful in any way.

Is it just me who thinks Kirby would actually be a much cooler and better character if we took more moves from his games and not have them be so damn slow in comparison?
Literally why I never play him because I feel his moveset potential is criminally underused. It's not just in this game, either.

He doesn't need to have low range to be Kirby.
He doesn't need to have low priority to be Kirby.
He doesn't need to have the same Fighter/Cutter/Stone/Suplex abilities, and he can definitely call upon more to make him even more unique and true to his character.
Dammit Sakurai, especially when he made Kirby too.

Kirby being a good and more representative character is easy to imagine, but very difficult to execute in my eyes.
I don't blame the devs for not innovating Kirby further than the official Smash games, but it is a shame.

Honestly, if Kirby took completely after his Smash 4 incarnation, I'd be inclined to admit that he'd feel more viable in my eyes.