Ah, okay, thanks. Just used the training to test that, personally I prefer the grab because I can still have a direction pressed when I do it, which means I can go in and out of combos faster, but that's just me.

Anyhow, I like the move's effects.

And pressing right or left when shielding is roll dodging; which is a dodge option all characters can do.

Well yes, I know that .

My point was that your roll-dodge is sustained briefly even after hitting the trampoline. How many characters can roll dodge while jumping rather high vertically, diagonally, etc?

A solid escape option, in my mind.

EDIT in relation to comments made yesterday:

Played vs a few more times. 's projectiles can cancel Samus' missiles without being destroyed themselves, which means a quick cherry toss is going to be my go-to response to missiles now. Plus, you get the added benefit of potentially landing a hit because your fruit is still in play after detonating the missile. Also, depending on where/how it is detonated, I'm noticing the fruit get tossed around a bit, so might have some interesting dynamics there.

it can be done on the ssz stage.im pretty sure it can be done by any wall

Not all walls will allow this...often his motion will cancel entirely. I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the walls. For example, the stairs on HSkies don't allow this.

On a different note, since all of your ghosts go through solid stage parts, they make for interesting edgeguarding tech.

Catching your own tossed items is interesting as well. I know this was already mentioned, but using walls to stop them allows you to easily catch things like the Galaga spaceship, which makes a great at-will projectile.

1. there's a PACMAN glitch i seen. When you grab your opponent with the trampoline behind you will jump on the trampoline and your opponent will be frozen in place.(attachment3)

2. you guys probably know this but ill just make sure.if you input upB right after a jab,right when you touch the ground after your first upB,and after smash attacks(frame perfect).the trampoline spawns lower than it usually does touching the floor of the stage.

^The trampoline has a number of great tech uses. I'm not sure if they are ACTUAL glitches or ACTUAL tech, but I'm happy calling them tech .

Yes, the low-trampoline use makes for a great booby trap for melee players.

I've noticed that with PAC-MAN most of my KOs are coming from usage of my hydrant now. Strategic hydrant drops/launches are now a key part of my style. Once opponents start getting around the 150% a hydrant drop from a high aerial makes for a great KO, and at any % it's one of the best ways to clear your landing. Considering PMAN is easy to juggle sometimes, this has been a life-saver against Marth.

Also, more Fruit Tech --

Can't say for certain, but PMAN's cherry toss can be chained faster than just about any projectile in the game. Once you get to high-speed spamming the cherries will actually be landing on top of one another and their explosions with launch the following one up in the air a short distance before it too explodes. Between this dynamic and their bounce they are one of the best edge-guarding/spamming maneuvers I've seen so far, mainly thanks to their hitstun. Playing vs a Sora main I got him off stage and then was able to use my cherrys to spam-block his recovery. Each impact reset Sora's jumps, but I was standing far enough back to be safe from attacks and was able to keep Sora in limbo off stage while I added over 300% damage with this alone.

Also, still testing to confirm this, BUT here's an interesting bit. Throw the Galaga ship into a wall, then grab it. You'll carry it around like others have said. The nice thing is that unlike other fruit (which just is thrown then blows up), Galaga flies on its own. Now, just like any object, if you get hit hard enough, you'll drop it. This means that if someone tries to punish you, you'll drop Galaga, which will fly into them and give you space to recover while also dealing some decent damage, knockback, and hitstun. Essentially an auto-defense mechanism.

Have to say that I'm still in love with the Red-Trampoline trick. Place the Trampoline near the edge of a stage (juuuussstt far enough away so that they can't grab the edge, and preferably just a touch below the edge) and jump on it till it's red. Then knock them off-stage (doesn't matter how hard). When they recover they will almost always hit the Red Trampoline and be locked in a free-fall to their death. If they avoid it and recover high, you have a number of good vertical counters (I've started liking the bell-toss as that has good vertical coverage without endangering you).

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That said, one suggestion:

When PMAN is in his Wedge form (on all three maneuvers the maneuver is) I think he should have better priority at least, or immunity at most. I've noticed that many of his best attacks involve the wedge form, yet they can be canceled by many chars. I played Chibi Robo vs PMAN once, and PMAN was trying to recover from below the stage with his trampoline. I was able to repeatedly grab PMAN while he was in wedge form, then toss him back offstage. I've also tried using the wedge-trampoline to counter airborn chars, only to have my attack interrupted by their own attacks.

Your n-air is another wedge form that serves a key purpose (getting down to the stage and clearing out room beneath you) but is easily interrupted by opponents. I can't say how many times I've tried to use this to come out of a juggling situation only to have myself hit yet again and tossed back up.

The pellet-chomp is the only wedge attack with at least somewhat reliable priority, I think, but even then if an opponent times it right most attacks will break you out of your motion, which results in PMAN's endlag from the attack and therefore a good deal of punishment.

Overall, while these are all great, the only reliable one is the pellet-chomp (and that's only semi-reliable), which means for aerials, upwards attacks, and all downwards attacks I have to rely on other maneuvers in most situations.

By order of "needing most repair" in my eyes:

n-air: currently this is only useful in rare or non-critical circumstances....which is rarely the case if you are trying to get out of the air fast. Time it just right and you might catch an opponent at the right time...but leaves you more vulnerable than not. Totally and completely trumped by dropping a hydrant if you need to clear a landing zone fast. Correction: With this attack give it much better priority, I'd say. Making you immune would be overkill and give PMAN too much power, but at least enough priority to interrupt MOST attacks would be nice (instead of almost none).

Trampoline-Wedge: This is okay, and you can get a lot of use out of it. Still, if your opponent has ANY good ways of doing air-counters you will be hit, and trying to get out of a bounce in this wedge form leaves you floating to the ground entirely helpless...nothing but a non-mobile hitbox. That much is just like any other up-special, so I'm fine with that. Correction: Give either high priority or immunity for X frames after each bounce in wedge form, allowing you to reliably make the attacks you are supposed to make with this move. After those frames, however, it should go back to normal IMO.

Pellet-Chomp: This is the most reliable of the three, but I would say some of the "bounce" hitstun/knockdown PMAN get's from running into something or being hit needs to be dropped. Having knockback from the momentum is fine, but just because I aimed wrong and bumped a wall in this I don't want to always be flipped onto my back.

Problem #1 with your Nair assertion: attempting to challenge an opponent below you with a body hit box with a short sweet-spot frame gap. The priority window is small and not good for landing (few Nairs are). And since PAC's Dair is meh, your best bet in the air is hydrant.

Nair is INCREDIBLE for starting/continuing combos out of short hop, especially for edge guard situations. It's an "everywhere-all-the-time" kind of hitbox that requires little precision to land a hit with, becoming a giant issue for certain characters in dealing with your approach and out-of-shield options. It's safe, it's fast, it combos, it can gimp/kill in proper circumstance. I'd say it's perhaps the best thing in his aerial kit next to Fair due to speed and reliability to link into... well anything really.

^What I've noticed is that it n-air is at its best against air-borne floaties, and at its worst against swordsmen.

Agreed, as a strategic maneuver it's great. I'd just like a bit more priority. Also, while you're right that it's never an optimal choice anyway, you can make it work if you time things right. I was just testing a few things...

Using F-air and then chaining into N-air makes for a great combo landing approach as the hydrant will have hit (hopefully), knocked back (with the water), or at least forced your opponent to go defensive. Pairing that with a fast move like N-air that has good coverage seems to do good. It would be great if your N-air could get enough momentum at the end to actually send the hydrant rolling, as Fair > Nair would be much better combo in that case.

EDIT:

Well now...just tested out the glitch mentioned earlier, and this is easy to abuse. Gives PMAN some remarkably powerful stage control. Once I practice this more, it could easily be the most powerful stage control in the game.

I'm dubbing it the Guardian Grab and Drop (GGD):

(Guardian-- you are having a permanent semi-mobile hazard to which you are immune helping guard you from attacks; Grab and Drop -- I don't need to explain this)

All that damage in that pic was done by that single Galaga. It's not flying. It's just sitting there, and had been for some time.

It's well known that you can grab your items before you toss them. What I've figured out is that if you are made to drop some of these by being hit, they don't act normal. Instead, they just freeze where they were dropped, remaining permanent fixtures on the stage (only applies to the non-exploding items -- Galaga and Key). This too, was mentioned earlier in thread, can't claim credit here.

What I've found is thus: They are mobile, re-usable, some are permanent, and unlimited re-creation.

you can push them around with your attacks, moving them as see fit. Or, just create more (haven't found a limit on number you can have out yet).

These do their normal impact damage every time the opponent hits them, but the wonderful this is that you can run straight through them unharmed (be warned: if your opponent was the one to grab them, if they drop them the items WILL do damage to you instead. Don't let that happen).

This can be done with the Key as well for even more damage. The key is harder to do right because once it hits a hard surface it will *poof* out of existence (and it's also a bit harder to catch...galaga will circle around and pass you an extra time if you miss the first one), so if you do GGD it use some attacks to push it away from the stage. The knockback on these things is great, and they do admirable damage.

So far I can't figure out any way to even get rid of Galaga once I GGD it. It literally becomes a permanent hazard to which you are immune. Of course, you can always pick it up again and then throw it, in which case it will fly as normal and then vanish. This way you can not only have stage control, but also a stockpile of Galagas and Keys to throw around whenever you need them.

I'll practice my skill with this and then post a pic if I can get more complex displays of using GGD for stage control, but I think I've described it well enough.

EDIT EDIT:

Tested more. Small opponents aren't bothered as much by this since they can just avoid them, but if you move it low it still keeps them at bay. Medium chars are really messed up by this, and the large chars (Bowser and DK) are just doomed because they can't avoid them. Also, successfully got three up in the same game, still working on more.

Most obvious limitation is that you have to get hit for these to be dropped. To be fair, getting three in the game I had to force situations into happening vs the CPU. By that point the CPU couldn't figure out how to get to me before it took so much damage it was KO'd by the GGDs. Second side of this is not only is it somewhat hard, but after a point you don't REALLY want to be allowing yourself to get hit. This is a defensive back-up mechanism. With proper timing I can see circumstantially being able to make this work, esp at low %s when you don't mind getting knocked a couple times. By late game don't try this because the cost of having to be hit hard enough to drop it outweighs the benefit you're getting.

Also, tip: push one of these a little off the edge of the stage for supreme edge-guarding power. If you feel like a total troll combine this with the Red-Trampoline trap offstage for guaranteed kills.

Idk if can do this in SSB4, but the fact in this game that if you use a kill move like f smash and you hit with it same time or still ends up bouncing on trampoline after the hit, he will end up NOT DYING LOL.

The trampoline saves lives, if they put alt costumes in, they better give a fire fighter costume imo lol.

Agreed. PMAN's overall attacks aren't the most glorious thing in the game, but he is one hell of a tech-laded and sneaking char if you play things right. I have yet to find a situation for which there isn't some sneaky tech trick that could make it better.

He relies on Bell throwing and regrabbing for Kill Confirms on stage

But Tramp and Fruits are where he shines... although Hydrampoline is really good for edgeguards

On-stage:

PMAN can do a nice KO with just about any of the upper-end fruits (Galaga, Key, Melon, Bell) as well as his Smash attacks (particularly his side thrust, but also his up-smash). His side-special (pellet chomp) will also KO in a variety of directions. Even his standard attacks can KO at the higher %s if you chain them (they're better when you're juggling, though), particularly if they're used coming out of a grab (which will lead into an air-combo).

Besides, Hydrant on the ground + knocking it at your opponent is EXTREMELY reliable KO move while on stage at varying %s (best I got strictly on-stage without the drop was a perfectly timed knock on Fox at 47%, two hits on-stage and then the third hit while he was trying to recover from offstage KO'd him).

Is it just me, or does anyone else put the fire hydrant on the trampoline then hit enemies into it? I find it helpful and effective.

Mains:

Secondary:

I'm pretty sure the devs once advertised Pacman for the "Hydrampoline Combo" being a ssf2 unique feature or something

Also, look up at the Mcleodgaming Forums Banner, there's a thing there called "User Control Panel"

Click the thing that says "Profile" and "Edit Signature" and put your mains there