Fox can do utilt out of his shine. If any other character had a move they could jump cancel then they could also do this. This works for the same reason a running Utilt does.

Hold left/right, up, and press the attack button. This seems super useful and cool. It tacks 16% onto your opponent and can set up stuff like an edgeguard.

and because ssf2 doesn't have official analog controller support, this works with every controller (I think). And if I'm wrong, then just set controls to the D-pad.

tldr: JC Utilt is universal and you should take advantage of it

yep works outta shield too

if you dash, press down then jab you can jab while dashing, this is extremely useful.

This is a utilization of a tech that has been around forever, dash-cancelling. IMO it's most helpful to do dash-cancel tipper with Marth, but jabs are also helpful (and occasionally ftilt).

damn that's hard to do. But imagine if people could do it consistently and punish people who try to land behind their shield.


You can also do this with pretty much any other move too. Dtilt, Ftilt, Dsmash, Fsmash, and most broken of all, Shine. It's just called Dash cancelling.

Dash cancel shine with Fox is probably the best utilization of dash cancelling in the game. Marth tipper 2nd I guess

Oh, I didn't even count doing crouch things out of dash. Yeah, dtilt is super useful too.

Double post but it didn't make sense to edit.

I've been trying to crack the Zelda MU with some success, and I'd appreciate other people's advice, as I currently have a pit of rage in my heart for this character. Things I've found:

* Nair gets stuffed by a bajillion moves with transcendence, so dtilt -> run back is better, using nair only as a mixup or to punish. You can also convert off of dtilt at low percents: it chains, and combos into usmash and aerials.

* Uthrow uair never works, but you might have some luck tech-chasing with dthrow.

* Shine-stalling is really useful to land against Zelda's insane uair.

* Run off dair to Shine actually gimps Zelda on some stages. I've had some luck with dair -> Shine on FD, for example, because as long as you cover ledge Zelda can't get the angle she needs. Besides that, don't bother trying in vain to edgeguard Zelda, just keep positioning on stage.

* Nair -> uair and nair -> usmash (depending on DI) are good finishers.

* As far as stages go, Zelda has a chaingrab so flat stages are no bueno, and you probably want a low ceiling. PS3 is ideal, but in a pinch Smashville will work too. You want to probably ban FD/3DS, ToS, and either JH, CS, or DL, because all of them suck. I'd probably ban either JH or CS because at least on DL you can run away.

* Drill-shine-usmash is good as always against floaties. Jab never combos into anything unless they don't hold shield. Utilt -> uair has a thin window around 80% where it connects and kills, so fish for that. You can do it out of nair and dair depending on DI, so try it.


In general, you have problems in the MU. Zelda can beat almost everything you have on reaction, so mixups are essential. I haven't tried lasering against Zelda, but it probably works pretty well, at least to force Nayru's Love so you can run in and nair. You have to have super-slick punishes and an amazing neutral, because Zelda's punishes are really good. Don't go offstage ever. Don't ever miss DI, because if you do you'll die at 50%. Just DI everything for survival unless you're sure that you don't need to. But I believe! I'll figure it out!

I agree with what you brought to the table.

I always get so close to beating a Zelda with my Fox, but I never can clutch it out.

Yeah, this is what I am getting at from playing Silver Evil. It's best to camp, avoid Din's fire, watch their reactions and to poke.

Zelda has no problem zero to deathing Fox and edge guarding him.

I am not too sure about the run off dair into shine spike.

Zelda can chain grab mostly everywhere on Fox. If the Fox goes on to a platform, than a free tech chase for her.

Actually the up throw to up air works on Zelda if you are fast enough.

You want to know how bad Fox's jab is in neutral? If you hit it, Zelda can actually sweetspot fair you if they were to react fast enough to buffer the move.

I don't quite follow this:


Wouldn't shine-stalling make you more vulnerable to uair since you don't move at all? Or is Zelda's uair reflected (I doubt it but maybe)? I mean, shine-stalling when below Zelda is obviously not what you mean since if I was below Zelda I wouldn't be worried about her uair lol. Unless you mean a different aerial lol.

To add onto the Zelda MU, you have 2 ways to beat dsmash. You either DI straight up to survive, or you DI down and try to tech. Her dsmash is fast, so you sort of have to predict a dsmash or have great reaction time to tech it.

From my testing on uthrow uair, at 0% you might be able to do it. When I TASed it Zelda had one frame to jump (which would escape) at 0%, and certainly you aren't getting it after that. You might be able to do some shenanigans with uthrow -> Shine -> jump -> DJ uair, but I doubt it.

About shine-stalling, I meant that if you're in the air coming down, you have s*** airspeed so you aren't going to outrun Zelda. However, you have a 50-50 mixup: if you Shine before you get into the part of the stage that Zelda can hit you in and she uairs, you come down for free, but if she waits you're screwed. If you don't Shine and she waits, you also get down for free. You can also Illusion on some stages, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Well, the way I see it, if you can shine you can also jump. Jump would get you out of all of the situations shine-stalling does with respect to Zelda's uair, and completely ignores this mixup you are describing. Or, at least, it just postpones the mixup for after the jump (now whether or not Fox jumps creates a new mixup), and now with Fox in the air he can shine-stall to bait a pre-emptive attack or (what I would probably do more often than not lol) is FF an aerial. Using Fox's high fall speed to just get to the ground as fast as possible (sneak by the potential uair).

If you don't have a jump, then you are double rekt because all Zelda has to do is wait for the shine. If it comes out, wait and punish. If it doesn't, well Fox can't do anything to escape the uair if the Zelda times it right. Then all he has is FF, maybe with an aerial.

I guess you're right. Illusion away! Firefox as a landing option!

I know many people have discussed the potential of the first-hit Uair, but after some testing of my own...OMFG!!!! This move has so much potential for extending combos (right now I'm only testing Uthrow combos). On Fox at 50%, Grab>Uthrow>1stUair>Shine>Grab>1stUair>1stUair>pretty much anything. If the correct option is chosen, the Fox will die. Even though this is in the training room where CPUs don't DI, Fox's Uthrow can't be DI'ed so its guaranteed. Will eventually test on other characters if people want me to. Would type more but I got to go.

Edit: I'll type extensions of the above combo. The first one is a grab or a shine-grab which can lead into the usual Fox grab shenanigans, Fox Upthrow Upair will KO, Fox Upthrow Bair will also KO. One could also Uptilt after the second Uair which of course leads to Fox's Uptilt shenanigans. If one Shine-grabs first and then does the combo, one could start juggling with first hit Uairs a lot which can build serious damage into a KO move. Drill-shine>grab will also have the same effect. Utilt>Grab will also have the same effect.

Will edit more later.

Edit 2: This post is invalid. CPUs don't jump out of Fox's Uthrow which is the only way to escape the above but jumping away is the best method of escaping Fox's Uthrow so...me sad.

Edit 3: For those interested in what the combo looked like here is the download link
http://www.mediafire.com/download/0lvib ... ork.ssfrec

IMO the best use of single-hit uair is that when you're catching people on platforms and stuff, sometimes bair won't hit but first-hit uair -> jump back bair will. There might also be use as a jab reset on platforms and first hit uair -> complete uair for that extra few pixels.