You didn't respond in substance to anything I said. I'll stop capitalizing words (for a minute I thought you meant hitting them with Mario's side special) if you want me to.

What about the zero-death chaingrab, which literally no other character has in this game? What about the defensive options Samus has that stuff all of Fox's approaches? You just flat-out ignored everything I said, and what little you did actually remark on was just complete agreement with what I said. What makes the MU 50-50 and not 80-20 on flat stages or 65-35 on others?

Fox is normally an in-your-face character, with camping exceptions. I've played Fox plenty times vs a Samus, and I find that Dtilt->Bair almost certain at 20%-75%. less than 20% leads to knockdown, which can be techchased when Fox techs, or simply punished if not. more than 80% Samus can charge her Nspec for free
Believe it or not, Fox can't Shine a fully charged Nspec when it is point blank. Deadzone hype
Let us not forget the killer Dthrow

Thank you.

OMG are you serious? Dude, the majority of your last post is what I said so don't start talking like you gave any new information. How can I flat-out ignore your post when the majority of the post is just most of the stuff I went over? For god's sack.

I have never been susceptible to the chain grab, so that's why in my post before your last one, I said I would get more information on the MU, seriously calm your tits.

This goes along with the approach options so calm down. I do see that Fox can't approach Samus as much as I thought when battling other Samuses.

Dude stop acting so damn aggressive.

Actually I remember a Mega buster from a Mega Man player hit me when I had reflector next to him.

Chill.

What do you mean you "aren't susceptible" to the chaingrab? Does it not work on you? Surely even if you have an amazing neutral that never gets grabbed, you can still get grabbed from tech-chasing. Even one grab at lower percents is a massive swing to a game.

Dude why are you telling me to chill when you are the one that needs to chill?

I meant no one has tried it on me.

Come to the IRC, fight the intelligent, and the laggers alike.
Not to mention the illiterate.

Lol

So I had juicy a.k.a. Samantha n**** use the chain grab on me. Yeah it's inescapable. He messed up a few times so I thought it could be escaped, but nope. Can't even D.I. behind Samus.

The most vicious thing about the chaingrab is that unless you're really lucky it usually always leads to death, which is super important because Samus has very few reliable kill moves. If you get complacent or lazy or just miss timing, they can just get you up to 140%, act like they're going to regrab, wait for you to miss the tech, run in and jab or just jab in place, charge dsmash, and kill you. Charge Shot is also a guaranteed kill if they ever have it, but to be honest why would you? Also, near offstage especially, there are several other guaranteed options like bair or dtilt which can kill.

This thread is as dead as IRC... Time to thread bump!

During my small "vacation" from here, I played around with Jab1 further. It seems to set up Dash Attack, FSmash, FTilt, possibly DTilt and other stuff really well at lower and mid percents. You can also run after them, bait an airdodge and DC DSmash them, although thats pretty unreliable. Jab1 to Charge Beam also seems reliable, but more testing is needed. I only could test this on CPUs (blame Kyoz kappa), but it seems to works pretty good as a surprise attack or just for mixups.

Another thing: If you throw out a Missile, Pivot Grab and immidiate FThrow them you can hit them with the Missile while they are stuck in the animation without a chance to escape. Easier with Homing Missiles, but this sounds like a nic(h)e kill setup if used with a Super Missile. Can anyone more experienced than I am test this and say what you think? I have a replay of this somewhere, just gotta find it.

EDIT2: https://gyazo.com/0dc583cb8237f533f4200c68ddae48c7 Here ya go. Do you guys think you can do this with a Super for kills?

An animal with the letter starting with P, and ending with "ikachu" objects to the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Tru, although I'm pretty sure at a lot of percents Fox can shine out.

How much testing have you guys done with "Down Throw > Charge Shot" in my experience, it's an almost true combo every time (except sometimes you need to jump to connect it). The only problem is with DI towards Samus, but then you just jump backwards a bit.
Does anyone have percentages for combos or any more specific information, because Dthrow>CS is probably my favorite finisher.

And I'm pretty sure that fox can shine out of the combo eventually, but by that percentage, you could have finished him off, so it's a mute point...

ill feel obliged to post this here too

Okay, since I've been so sick of zair's weirdness, I've decided to pick apart the framedata for the move. The results are just as stupid as I expected.

Frame 1: Tether extended roughly 25% visually. By this point, the move already has an attackbox out.
Frame 2: Tether has not extended any further.
Frame 3: Tether extended about 50% visually. The grab box appears on this frame.
Frame 4: Tether extended about 75% visually.
Frame 5: Tether extended fully. This is the only frame in which the tether can hit someone while fully extended.
Frame 11: This is the last frame in which the tether can actually grab things. It's still visually fully extended at this point.
Frame 28: This is the last frame in which the tether is visually fully extended.
Frame 29: Tether is now 33% retracted.
Frame 30: Tether is now 67% retracted.
Frame 31: Tether is fully retracted.

So, for 16 frames, the move is fully extended, but not actively hitting or grabbing anything, with no visual indication whatsoever of this. This of course means that unless you fully memorized the timing, it is nearly impossible to determine when her tether becomes useless. There have been far too many times in the past where I was unable to grab the edge without knowing the answer. Well, now I know.

Assuming that this move gets modified in beta (a frame 1 disjointed attack with 0 landing lag is definitely gonna get nerfed hardcore), I would like to see Samus begin to retract the beam starting on the 12th frame, ending the move on frame 14 and making her go into special fall (because let's face it, she's dead if she misses anyway). At least then, people won't have to mine data to determine how this move is supposed to work.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention. Assuming she does grab the edge, it takes her 9 frames to actually pull herself to it, regardless of where she grabs it.

DE I'd like to point out that, just like with Link/ZSS' tethers, they are technically grabbing the edge throughout the whole animation, even if it doesn't look like they've grabbed the edge.