I don't think Dtilt would have much use if it does meteor gimp. The move is so short range, and Zelda is so slow, landing a Dtilt can be difficult in itself. It only happens with an opponent being at the ledge too often. So it better as a juggle and tech-chase setup for Zelda's really great throws.

And that should be it's use if you hit someone airborne too.

And i agree on the Link D-Tilt spike not really fitting properly with his whole design. Link really isnt the kind of character to have such a simple gimp option like that.

At least you had to sweetspot in the main games to meteor, but 64 didnt have that (and it was the only smash game where i mained link so yeah.) Here it just straight up meteors, so its kinda dumb really.

I mean I really can understand a meteor if it sweetspots (although its still kinda ew) but not how it functions now

I think it would be cool if the devs put a "SSF2 twist" on Zelda's dtilt and gave it lightning kick properties. Like sweetspot dtilt would be the equivalent of Peach's dtilt in terms of power and sourspot dtilt can let Zelda regain her "dtilt lock" from 9.a

That would be terrible, lol. I can't imagine how abusive Dtilt would be if it was a Lightning-Kick. It would setups too well in to air Lightning-Kicks or Down-smash.

Was looking over some past matches, when I noticed this pretty cool platform mobility sequence I did (from Jammy Weekly Tourney 4 Grand Finals S2)

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comme ... ment_with/

Yeah, that was quite good. One of my favorite tourney sets!

every game did it until smash 4 it's just us being consistent

That's what I mean: it's IMHO poor character design on Sakurai's part (a placeholder for the entire Smash dev team) to have a character that doesn't depend on edgeguarding or the move in general, and then give them a move that doesn't really work with their other moves and makes certain characters' lives hell if they miss sweetspots. It's not very useful in the vast majority of situations, but it's annoyingly good when it can be used.

But how is it poor design in SSF2, when Zelda has always been terrible in Smash Bros. and better here?

Please explain. It's a bad move until it's a edge-guarding situation? Then it's OP? But Zelda herself is a hard-boiled glass-cannon, being strong but slow and light-weight. I mean, I honestly never find the a chance to do Dtilt gimps, unless the opposing player makes a really dumb mistake.

It can make some recoveries fairly easy to gimp if they don't sweetspot (Falcon, Naruto, Mario, etc.). But more importantly, it seems like excessive cheese. As you said, it's not really a bread-and-butter edgeguarding tool, but it feels really lame to get hit by it because you slightly missed the sweetspot. I think it wouldn't really nerf Zelda much at all. Additionally, I don't understand your first sentence there. Do you mean that Zelda doesn't need a nerf?

I don't know about that. I mean, any wise player knows you sweet-spot the ledge, or right for Zelda to attack when recovering against her. The timing to land Dtilt is difficult and, again, it can be really difficult to get that type of setup unless the opponent makes a bad mistake. And there's a lot of time I do land the Dtilt spike, and the opposing character can still makes it back to the ledge. If there where any real reason to get rid of Dtilt spike, it be so she can't get a free follow-up into Dsmash.

I don't think Zelda needs a nerf. She's pretty good, or, even, against much of the cast, but she has difficulties with match-ups where the other character is overall faster than her. There might be a few fast characters she's has a big advantage against (maybe both: Fox- Chain-grabs/juggles & Sonic- harshly punishes him). She's just a noob-crusher, really. The main reason why I use Zelda is because she strongly tests the fundamental skills of her opponents. If you have bad habits, she will destroy you for them. Really dumb mistakes can equal a stock lost against her. But her weaknesses are easy to exploit for any experienced player. That's where she gets tested, and has to learn how to avoid leaving openings to be exploited.

if we get rid of dtilt meteor i could just dsmash you just as free :/

fine.

If there was any nerf that Zelda really really really really really really needed, it be to weaken sweet-spot Back-air to have similar knockback as Front-air.

Front-air, with good DI, you can survive up to 110%. That's reasonable.

Back-air, with good DI, you can survive up to 80%. That's not too bad.

The problem is, if she goes for any type of DI mix-up/cross-up, she can force her opponent to misprint the way their DI, killing them at 55%-65%, easy. Even if she's hitting with Bair from the far left of the stage, she can still get the kill off the right-side blastzone. 'Dtilt > Run off ledge > Bair cross-up' is way too godlike. I'm mentioning this because mix-ups and frame-traps are my playstyle with Zelda, so when I hit some with Bair at 60% and they die, I disgust myself. Please considered Bair mirroring Fair's knockback.

all for it