Hmm, Wario's Jab is actually not that bad. The 1st hit has set knockback, and it's a pretty long Jab as well. Jab resets into stuff like Dash Attack or Waft are real easy if you set the situation up, and you can do them at any %. Usually this opportunity arises when fighting chars like Falcon and Fox, and we all know how both chars hate Dthrow and Dash Attack.

Looking back at the old Wario posts it's pretty funny how people were all like "oh Wario's so good and smart now, how do I fight this guy". Nowadays you got me over here hazing on how lackluster he is compared to most of the cast. Wonder what happened to all those people who were praising him back then.

Anyway, I'm starting to think Wario vs Falcon is more even than it seems to be. After shifting my focus from comboing to tech chasing recently, I realized how screwed Falcon can be if he gets caught in a tech chase by Wario. Falcon's statistics as a character are perfect for Wario to play with, since Falcon doesn't fall as fast as Fox but is heavy and tall enough to get comboed and tech chased easily. Because of this, Falcon can go from getting comboed, to tech chased, and vice versa for long periods of time as long as Wario stays in his face. I'm curious about what others think, and by others I mean like the 2-3 others that actually care about Wario. Basically, one single combo setup by Wario could equal death or bad positioning for Falcon, granted Wario lands a hit in the first place.

I'm starting to think that Wario, if his moveset isn't changed at all, should be a character with armor in some of his moves. With very bad range, slow speed, and generally low KO power, I think armor would help him out quite a bit since he's designed to be a lot more offensive in Flash than in main Smash games.


Here are moves I think should be given armor in some form:

- Forward Tilt, during the startup/windup of Wario's fist.

- Forward Smash, from startup until the belly begins to retract.

- Up Smash, during the startup.

- Down Air, during the startup/backflip.

- Shoulder Bash, during the startup.

- Corkscrew, until the move ends.

- Level-5-Waft/HUGEBOOM, until the move ends.

Personally i wouldn't mind him being more of a brawl/sm4sh wario, overall he's more fun to play there, here he feels, limited, maybe that's because of the lack of warioware in him in ssf2.

Wow, finally someone other than myself posts in the Wario thread.

In my old changelist, I gave Wario some Brawl and some Smash4 attributes. Stuff such as Smash4 Fair (which would be a great spacing/edgeguarding tool that's ACTUALLY safe for him), and Brawl Dair (much better than the Dair he has now anyway, plus it's a combo setup to add to the combo nerfs I gave him).

Looking back at it, I think I take back some stuff I put. But I'm too lazy to go and revise it lol.

That would go wonders for him, also what are people's opinions on wario's current s-spec, in lag for me at least in online, it's a nightmare.

In lag, it's pretty hard to deal with. With as close to offline play as online gets, it's easy to deal with. Just protect yourself and punish, or just be brave and hit Wario out of it. It's a very unsafe move that personally, I mostly use for movement.

Lotta people are feeling sorry for me and are trying to use their lesser chars on me lol. But sadly no one knows Wario's bad MUs aside from myself. I'll just list them, and yeah I know I was ridiculed for it in the past but cmon now. Who really uses Wario seriously aside from myself? You kidding me?

Bad MUs:
Black Mage (Terrible)
Bomberman
Captain Falcon
Chibi-Robo
Fox
Jigglypuff (Terrible)
Kirby (Potential for worst)
Link
Lloyd (Potential for worst)
Marth (Terrible)
Mega man (Terrible, IF Brick spam)
Meta Knight (Potential for worst)
Tails
Naruto
Ness
Pikachu
Peach
Zelda (Terrible)
Sheik (Terrible)
Samus
Goku
Sora
ZSS (Terrible)

Ichigo isn't on there, that explains a lot during lag matches.

Viewing the APEX build we saw on streams, I speculate that Isaac and G&W are also going to be bad MUs, since Wario is unchanged. But if we were to speculate further, Isaac would still be a bad MU for Wario due to each Char's concepts; Wario generally is slow and has short range, but scary punish, and Isaac would have many disjoints, and be pretty flexible in terms of defense and offense. So unless there's a drastic change for either character's moveset or qualities, this will pretty much be a guaranteed bad MU, since the only time Wario will do anything scary is when Isaac messes up or isn't paying attention in case Wario tries some sneaky approaches. And there will be solid players who will watch out.

Yeah that might be scary to see, hopefully he gets a higher tier along with sora and chibi-robo

Just a reminder that it isn't always true that disjoints > non-disjoints. Marth doesn't win against everyone without a sword: what's much more important is how the full neutral plays out (which Wario tweaks might change massively), and the punish game.

Yeah it's not always true, but I didn't emphasize Wario's speed and lack of range enough. Probably should've. Also I have almost no hope for Wario lol. Seeing no changes in APEX build, plus being like the only Wario main and having been ridiculed before is also quite demoralizing.

I personally would want his neutral to be much better, but I'm kinda mixed on his punish game. Sure it could be a little too much but it's so much fun!

Weird huh? I'm guessing it could be Sachamel's lack of knowledge in this MU, but it still seems very unlikely that he couldn't land a hit on me. This MU is one of Wario's worst and it could potentially be his worst, so how did this stock not showcase that fact?