psst hey

you can find out why characters are where they are in the tiers by taking the time to look into it yourself

~*effort*~

No but Kyuubit, us Casuals could form ignorant opinions if we look at Tier List!

It's true man I looked at a tier list a few days ago and ever since I've formed the opinion that Ganondorf is 2OP, we must allow the Competive players to uphold the game's purity

it's true I saw Marth was good in Melee and now I use him and I'm the best player in the world #whoa #howaboutthat

Yeah but can you No Fox Items Only Battlefield Destination Final Turbo Mode

Well, see I would find out why characters in tiers by looking at them myself, but I honestly hit impasses in judging those. I lack knowledge of what to exploit and skill to use those exploits and advantages reliably enough to judge their effectiveness relative to what the rest of the roster can offer. I often joke that Tiers are for Queers™ because it's easier to joke about my misunderstanding of tiers with ignroance (and because I often get yelled at for using characters I really like just to find that they place pretty highly), but the urges in the back of my mind to question them still motivates me to look further than stolen comedy material.

Plus, discussion is stimulating and fun. And involves other people. Which I like, kinda.

Deciton Tiers (Unmodded Brawl, No items)

Peach
Ice Climbers

Jigglypuff

Game and Watch

Lucario
Marth
Snake

Those are the only characters I use anymore. Though I have a friend that plays a mighty fine Captain Falcon.

so as it turns out, m2k didnt actually agree with the tier list that ct put out

so your point from some previous post that i skimmed is wrong

Then you don't know enough about the game to have to worry about tiers

It's not that they're that important to me, but tiers represent a general competitive preference, right? It'd still be good to know what competitors like or what they think/know will when and why they do.

tiers don't really represent anything actually. they obviously don't represent a theoretical power at each character's skill cap, because there's no evidence to suggest that any character would be at the place it is right now if that were the case (except fox, i guess). they don't represent "how many people play that character", because there's a pretty disproportionate distribution of players of the top 8 characters.

Tiers represent which characters are are most likely to be successful in a competitive setting (i.e. a tournament). That's why someone like Marth has a higher tier placing than Bowser, he's more likely to win a tournament. Now tiers might be just an opinion, but In games like Melee and Brawl, where we know about every character's potential, they are pretty definitive unless something ridiculous is discovered that makes a character 1000x better (which isn't likely to happen at this point). They shouldn't be taken as who will win a tournament though, as that comes down to a player's skill.

In a newer game you may be able to argue that any character is top-tier, but once the metagame develops, tournament results will determine what characters stay on top. Even in games with good balance, the characters that are higher on the tier list are usually more popular for various reasons such as; having less bad matchups, having a lower skill ceiling (not every high tier is easy to use), etc.

no man don't you get it you use metal night and you automatically win

So that's why there's so much disagreement on PM's tiers currently? I mean, I found all the characters ('cept Olimar) to be insanely useful, but when the PM metagame solidifies we'll see even crazier things, hopefully? I'm stoked for that in the future, but for now I kinda just want to see more tier lists from more people. Spark more discussion about what makes any fighter good in their own respects.

psst hey!! they have discussions!! that's how they make the f*** tier lists in the first place!! not the other way around!!

jesus christ

Y'know, people still debate tiers after they form. It's not like they happen and absolutely no one questions them. It's kinda how they shift and change.