Agree with both. Regardless, I'd rather have Naruto suck than be the most annoying thing in the game.

I dont want him to be either.

I want him to be good and not a complete disaster of a character
(i know that might be a bit of an overstatement but Naruto is easily my least favorite character atm, and by a good margin.)

Pretty much everything Fedora listed would be be some very welcomed changes. I'd also make Fair have a bit less start-up, but make it a weaker meteor-smash. Just so he has some other aerial to combo into, so that everything isn't Nair, Nair, Nair, Nair, Nair, Nair, Nair, Uair.

I honestly think Naruto is a lot of fun to play as when you're looking to do combos and platform movement. But it sucks playing against one, because he's such an overbearing character. He's too good at too many things that his weaknesses don't make up for.

I use dair a lot in my combo game actually

And i originally thought about reducing start up on fair, but its already pretty fast so im kinda undecided. It could probably use it tbh but again im just unsure.

Naruto reminds me of Duck Hunt in Sm4sh.
He can camp all he wants with projectiles that no one likes, but he still has serious high damaging combo's.

I feel like Naruto should get a speed decrease in the rate he can throw his projectiles and a KO nerf. That way he'd have to work for kills instead of his moveset encouraging the camping with clones and charging up that weird blue projectile thing Ihavenoideawhat'snamed.

He doesn't have to be Meta Knight weak, just give him a couple moves that KO at about 110% and some that kill later on.

Wat...??

Meta Knight has incredible killing power for a lightweight: fsmash, dsmash, Shuttle Loop, dair, Dimensional Cape, and nair, which kills below 100% offstage and combos into itself).

I've seen MK's nair kill others (and once, me) at 40%. That's not weak. But I understand what you are trying to say about it.

What?
Naruto has to combo hard for him to kill as reliably as possible.

I understand the clone camping, but Naruto's move set allows him to be played many ways.

Ummm I mostly kill when the opponent is over 100 percent except when they are very light, very floaty or both.

Also I didn't know about his voice clips because they sounded the same to me, but now I see the difference.

Except for Rasengan, which has a huge hitbox, can be comboed into, and kills really early.

Yeah I forgot to add.

Well the regular Rasengan I think its hitbox is smaller and not so easy to combo into, but Rasenshuirken's hitbox is large and much easier to combo into.

That's not why it's easy to combo into.

It has a stun. If it didn't, it would be very easy to powershield it or just block it all together.

I didn't even say the reason it is easy to combo into is because of its large hitbox.

I said Rasenshuirken's hitbox is large and much easier to combo into. What I said didn't imply it is easier to combo into because of the large hitbox.

Please go back and read what I said before commenting on my post.

The Sass is real.

If the stun wasnt there youd might start seeing more vanilla rasengan.

Kinda wish I could opt to use a regular rasengan with full charge. Its way more flashy.

Yeah sometimes I love to go for a regular Rasengan and try to get it close to a fully charge one to see how big I can make the ball. Sometimes, I would get a huge ball that might be twice the size than what it normally would be.