I like that idea. I think Naruto should get something small in exchange that would further encourage him to play offensive.

They should make the cool down so that only one clone will come out until it's done. For example, let's say you use U-spec, you won't be able to use S-spec until the cooldown ends. Also, if you use S-spec, you won't be able to use the U-spec mine until the cool down ends. The cool down time should also be increased to 5 seconds (it's only 2 atm).

Lastly, why does fully charged Rasengan stun you? That should be removed pronto.

Yeah thats what i was thinking with the cooldown, being universal for all clone moves.
(although id say Up B would still work just without the mine.)
However 5 seconds is a bit much, 2 seconds is fine. I mean you can poop out like 3 clones every 2 seconds as is anyways, a 2 second limit will basically keep you from spamming it. Hell maybe 2.5 if it still proves to be too much but idk.
And I heavily agree on the stun removal.
Id also like the clone mine to not be active until it hits the ground, but with a universal cooldown system i dont know if that would be necessary.

Of course U-spec should work without the mine (that's why I said U-spec mine to be specific).

But I feel that 5 seconds is the right amount of time, because if it was 2 seconds like it currently is; then Naruto could just S-spec, dash dance, then S-spec again. 2-2.5 seconds isn't too little Imo. It should be 3.5-5 seconds (too actually force Naruto to go in).

I don't dislike the idea of the mine, I just think it need to be destructible by any attack; even the lowest priority jab. And makes it so his up-special cannot drop a new clone-mine until the existing one already out is activated/destroyed.

This way, he can still have his unique follow-ups, but players would have to be wiser with its placement. The clone-mine will loses all stage control due to it being effortless for opponents to destroy it, even when Naruto is standing over it. It will merely be used for combos into slower moves like smashes or specials. So a Naruto player would be more encouraged to knock the opponent into it for these follow-ups, instead of hiding behind it for protection. This also potentially can make the long resting period of the mine a disadvantage if badly placed. Because Naruto would have no way to reset the mine himself. An opponent would have to touch/destroy it before he could put a new one.

This, although I'm not sure completely nerfing its priority to hell is a good idea: maybe we could make it so that it required something more than just a jab (some tilts, smashes, most aerials, some projectiles) to keep Naruto from sucking. I agree that the focus should be on giving him a unique punish game and some stage control rather than giving him a decent combo and juggle game that is COMPLETELY outclassed by camping. Naruto is now one of the least versatile characters because you're just hurting your game if you ever approach: the best way to play him by a mile is camping. If you gave him a similar transition as Snake underwent from Brawl to PM, modifying his articles and outside hitboxes to become more offensively oriented, I think Naruto would be a much better character.

So everyone is 100% on board with clones being destructible by any attack? Good. Sounds like even Naruto players are.

Just mines. Other clones being somewhat durable are okay as long as the cooldown thing exists.

Fun fact: most naruto players still hate fighting naruto.

(That feel when they ledge cancel side b into airial down b into grounded down b. Thats the kind of thing that needs to not be possible)

clones are probably getting nerfed into oblivion next version but if they do get a balance change i would like to see a type of rework in the mechanic. Im guessing devs wanted players to use clones as a sort of gap closer to minimize the weakness in his lack of range. Although they can help continue he's combo's and punishes, players (scrubs) abused the defense given with clone's abnormally large hotboxes and the relative ease of spamming them. Instead of just nerfing his keep away game the clone mechanic should be tweaked to where they play a key role in his rush down and offensive capabilities. Removing the idea of spam/camping and making clones offensive based projectiles would really complement his normals and properly represent how the character is suppose to be played.

a cooldown would solve that imo

I don't think a cooldown is a good idea without giving him something really good in return, because I don't think Naruto is OP or UP and nerfing him that much would definitely upset the balance. Maybe a good idea is to rework his projectiles as combo extenders and approach tools:

* S-spec has more lag but more hitstun
* D-spec has more lag but is a finisher and only 1 clone comes out
* U-spec mine, instead of having a stunning effect, has a weak hit that can combo but is DI-able and far more easily destroyed
* Rasengan needs serious fixing, because it provides a huge incentive to camp because it's so good when charged. Maybe make the fully charged version more like the non-charged version and remove the stun?

These ideas probably all suck, but you get the idea. Nerfing Naruto to hell will just make him Kirby tier next demo and no one really wants that, so the focus IMO should really be on redesign rather than rebalancing.

Cooldown wouldnt be nerfing him to hell tho, it just removes his ability to camp and encourages more thoughtful use of his clones.

Although id like to see the sour spot in uair either improved or gone :/

If the sourspot were to be gone, Naruto's platform pressure would be even more ridiculous.

I like the sourspot knocking sideways. It give him a nice variety of follow-up, but it should probably have higher knockback scaling.

I also think, even if you nerfed Naruto's zoning, he would still offensively be a problem. He has too many brain-dead combos and safe punishment from his good frame-data. His combo game more than good, it's wickedly powerful. I'd really like Nair and Dash-attack to scale a bit higher with percents, so he doesn't have guaranteed follow-ups even at 80-100%. And Down-tilt knockback is way too high for how fast the move comes out. It's as optimal of a KO option as his smash-attacks. Lower back-throws knockback, and for Jab not to be able to combo into itself. The frame-traps and follow-ups Jab lets him do are just dumb.

If someone got REALLY good with Naruto we'd all be screwed.


But none of the really good players are interested and I can understand why.

SonicMario does that, and sometimes Scum. It's really dumb that Naruto has such auto-combos. DI doesn't change a thing, and before you know it, you took 60% in a span of 5 seconds. I use Naruto offline. I'm saying those things because when you're at level that, it's very easy to auto-pilot, and just remove an opponent's stock. Naruto combos are almost like Smash 64 combos, right now. It doesn't matter how many stocks Naruto's down, he's never out of the match. Because he can cough on you and you will die. I think he's a really scary strong character that's very easy to use.