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 [ 3 posts ] 
Labour MPs joining No to AV 
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:26 am
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11837428

Quote:
Five former Labour cabinet ministers have pledged their opposition to changing the system for electing MPs.


Maybe they will be able to formulate even a single argument for the current system. So far I have failed to notice anything that is even remotely intelligent, only mindless assertions.

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Liberal Socialist Mudraking Bastard (Averted, not performing any journalism)


Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:04 am
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:10 am
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Location: Australia - Sydney
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Currently Playing: Ninja Gaiden III
First past the post has its benefits, maybe not for society as a whole, but certainly for certain groups.

1. Minority parties or those who focus to a fairly specific interest groups
2. When there are more than one person being elected for each group (I'm not entirely sure if this is especially relevant in the UK, but it certainly is in Australia)
3. It's significantly cheaper. There are 61,838,154 votes that have to be counted. If this is done electronically, then there's a greater chance of fraud.

If those aren't problems however, it's nice to see some progress.

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Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:49 am
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I'm not sure what you mean with 1, I could be interpreting it the wrong way, but my take is that minority parties tend to be at the wrong end of the stick in first-past-the-post and that major parties get a disproportionate share of the seats. I think that is an issue, since the point in democracy is that the people are represented, and if representation is so far off (as in the UK), it is good wondering how democratic the system is (of course there is no perfect representation in a parliamentary democracy, but there is sufficient room for differences between the labels "not perfect" and "way off"). Minor parties can fragment the political landscape (Italy was a great example and it still is to a degree), but the voters deserve to be represented.

I suppose you are referring to Single Transferable Vote with 2? That isn't usually regarded as first-past-the-post, because there are larger constituencies and multiple seats, leading to a more equal distribution of seats.

3 could be well true, but I would respond to it with the same point addressed to 1, why bother pretending to be democratic anymore in such a case. It's obvious democracy comes at a price, there's no free lunch after all, but the alternatives don't seem to starry to me.

So I think these are not really big problems, in fact I think quite a lot is rather essential as principles in a democracy. I personally think the UK are well ripe for progress, but I don't think AV will get through in the referendum.

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Liberal Socialist Mudraking Bastard (Averted, not performing any journalism)


Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:50 am
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