It also doesn't work. Marth snaps to the edge fast enough in most cases, and while in Melee you can grab the edge during the fall, in ssf2 you cannot grab the ledge during that type of fall animation. You'd have to have a move that snaps to the edge within 2 frames of falling off the edge.

Hence why it doesnt happen like ever
Jammy claims up and down that he managed to pull it off, which lead to the impractical statement

The use of DAir to recover was very situational to begin with. This statement is garbage.

marth killer -> quick aerial works for sure. you don't always have to grab edge.


play someone who knows how to recovery with Lloyd (read: Lunary) and say that again.

or maybe back your statements up with explanation? idk just a thought.

Then thats not the Marth killer

And the other thing is that Marth snaps to the ledge so fast (if he sweetspotted) that only something that comes out almost immediately works, and in order to do that you'd have to buffer an aerial out of shield during the shieldlag so you don't grab in place.

How is dair situational? Unless you are below the edge, it's really almost always OK to use.

*reads again*

Aw, come on, am I really that bad at recovering?

Rising Falcon is pretty easy to see coming. Whether a given character can punish it off-stage is another matter, but the fact remains that despite Lloyd's recovery being better than anticipated, it is still incredibly linear and predictable. I don't disagree with the removal of Rising Falcon, especially if his new Dair is to be more offense-friendly, but without its presence to aid his return to the stage, Lloyd will likely have a recovery worse than that of Melee Falco.

New Lloyd feels pretty good. His recovery got gutted, but as I had been told time and time again over the weekend, this is a wet build for him, and is far from final. His new DAir grants him more variety in kill power, while his other killing moves received nerfs. (So more options, less power) Up-B still has great potential on-stage, and now has a reliable kill follow-up with Down-Air when used wisely. Sonic Thrust still has active frames to death. Grave Blade can combo with new Dair. F-Throw still kills. Rising Falcon is out, but I have a feeling final build will have it back in somehow, I trust the devs, since they're all nice people. I feel UP-B will get some kind of buff, since Lloyd now has the second weakest recovery now. (Bowser is like classic Melee) His Up-tilt still can pseudo -DACUS and can be used to kill. Overall his staples are present, with new variety, but currently no Rising Falcon. He's a strong character, don't sleep on the new build.

rising falcon, at least in v0.9b, gets about all of it's landing lag cancelled if you do it out of Tiger Blade. I hope the new dair has excessive landing lag so I can apply gimmicks


I might switch mains If I don't like the Lloyd changes

this build is designed in a way that we think should make everyone comfortable enough to pick up the character and learn a bit and be really good. it's got some spice but he still plays like lloyd unless you were abusing the things that were silly before and not doing anything else

Am I the only one that doesn't like Lloyd's new appearance in the upcoming version? I guess the look and of Lloyd himself looks good and so does the smoother animation but it's just the swords that bother me. They don't look as aesthetic and they're not held at angles properly, and the sword swing effect doesn't look that good either.

If his stage presence is so great, how is nerfing his already bad recovery logical? Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf a factor of his stage presence e.g. his movement speed?

His recovery was bad in 09b and that's fine. Each character should have their pros and cons. But nerfing what is already such a huge con for a character was an awful decision on MG's part.

Although I do agree that giving more vertical and horizontal height to his Up B would compensate for the D Air change.

If a characters good onstage game is nerfed but their bad recovery remains the same, you get Falco in smash 4. Compare him from brawl to Smash 4.

Sure his onstage game can be ridiculously safe (I think those things need to change), but his recovery needs some tweaks (not outright nerfs). He is losing Rising Falcon, so perhaps give his up-b more length (as suggested by others) but do something about the fact that it is hard to challenge.

That seems fair. MgamingCleod Pls do dis pls