I don't think she's spammy, just most i've fought lately like to keep their distances and spam missiles and up airs LOL

She went from zoning to transcendent projectiles. Even dittos aren't fun anymore. There's no easy way to approach. If someone really gets to you it's because you let them... you can just spam and people are dead.
We went from Street Fighter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0f44F2S5Ac like canceling projectiles to Tribes ascend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gma5Oot0HY4.

In V9B You can destroy her projectiles or you can counter them. Forcing that Samus to fight up close. Or have a whole new level of set ups as people will attack those projectiles thus creating much more interesting game play. She doesn't have to do that at all really. Her old attacks allowed her to deal with projectiles as well.

If you think this Samus is better then you're wrong. If you put the other Samus in here with her nice a** combo game a good Samus would eat BETA Samus up. This one has really low combo game where most of her stuff will only link up into up air. She can't really extend combo's with Zair as the person goes flying off. She's also EASILY juggled something old Samus would spit on. You can't lock that 9b Samus down at all she's really good in the air. Beta Samus does much more damage than the other Samus though, plus her knock backs are much better as well (Which cost her to lose the combo game she once had) . But her speed and combo's aren't the Same. Her bombs aren't even as good. At least we have morph sliding.

I don't recall saying samus is bad in beta, blue.
But I do recall saying that I hate how she is. The entire reason I played 9b samus is 100% gone. theres no mobility, no mindgames, no rushdown. They took her best spacy killing tool and made it hit higher and reduced the KB(Dsmash) and instead of tweaking Dthrow they straight up change the move entirely, just like pika's Dair.

Morphslide in beta takes literally 0 skill to do, just stand in place and DownB, its very un-fun. I don't care how cancer Fair and CS is if I don't have fun playing a character.

I'd trade CS to do 20% and no KB for 9b's mobility and Dsmash to return. :\

And like Godreaper was saying; Since samus is so slow and her projectiles are so powerfulAND TRANSCENDENT she is built around camping and spamming in Beta, which I don't see how in the world any dev thought that would be fun. Or balanced.
having Fair to be a combo, kill, and gimp move is just not cool. And why the hell did you nerf Bair to hit higher? Nair serves no purpose now. Uair looks like a sad attempt to be smash4.

long story short; give me back 9b samus, or at least what she felt like <,< Beta samus is not fun despite being high tier with CS killing at 50% and Fair dicking people left and right

holy s*** so you're telling me to have that s*** dsmash that kills at 30% back
f*** no, get out of my board
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

remind me, with what DI does a small hitbox kill a fast character?(implying spacie)
And how is the Dsmash a more terrible than the current charge shot?
How about you leave? Also, stop being a dick and calling me a retard. Thats a very douchey thing to do man :L you're not even contributing to my lamenting pain

i called you a retard, what, lmao.
i also didn't say anything about dsmash being more terrible than the current charge shot, and why would you say that.
no you leave, you just suck at samus and your s*** pain is doing nothing to make you better.

To be honest, the character I least like facing right now is Samus. I don't know if the projectile priority stuff is intentional or going to be patched out (I hope for the latter), but you have to give her so much respect this version: her melee attacks do a lot of damage and have a lot of range, and you can't get past her projectile walls with attacks any more. I think powershielding is going to be absolutely crucial to winning the MU with slower characters: otherwise you just have no way to approach. Even stuff like Homing Missiles now puts such a bind on your movement options, and there's not a lot you can do besides really careful evasion and optimizing the punish game.

I have to say that the new Samus is intolerable, for me. in v0.9b her projectiles were good and powerful, and her melee was good, but they weren't crushing like they are now.

I got into a battle vs a Samus with Pac-man yesterday and absolutely hated it. The Samus player spent the whole game just spamming projectiles. Pac-man was mobile enough to allow me to dodge well and get into melee, but even then the improvement to her melee made things troublesome. On the right stage, a projectile spamming Samus is now between difficult and impossible to beat depending on the mobility of your char and their air-game.

Now, just because a character is hard doesn't mean they are bad, but in this case they are hard not due to a strong moveset, but due to a spammy moveset. Also, on her main charge shot I feel it charges a bit too fast now, but maybe that's just me.

The conclusions some people are coming to for Samus in Beta compared to v0.9b are hilarious.

She was perhaps slower and more campy with few TRUE COMBO (primarily reads) options in v0.9b. The problem was her camping didn't work because projectile priority was really bad. With improved projectile priority, missile canceling poses a serious presence, allowing Samus to make opponents approach poorly.

That's really her goal in Beta; force poor/predictable approaches that are met with a still-great down throw, better jab, linkable up-tilt, and always amazing down-tilt. Nair and Bair can both lead to great followups or allow you to put out missiles/CS to catch rolls or close a stock in the right circumstance.

Morph sliding being "easy" doesn't make it necessarily unfun. It makes it useful. Samus had horrific approach options in 0.9b (hence being more campy). Morph sliding, a better fair, and overall better air speed and run speed help her immensely.

Someone mentioned that v0.9b Samus didn't get juggled but Beta does... I don't think that person ever played v0.9b Samus against someone who knew how to juggle. Her biggest innate drawback was her weight+floatiness. Most combos would work on Samus for a wide percent range, and then she was easy to kill of the top. If she's still like that, then nothing has changed. She just has better options to stay grounded and control space.

She's perhaps more mid-tier which is a big improvement from low-tier in v0.9b. And the changes globally to momentum out of dash-->jump give her some great mind games for getting CS/grapple/missiles out safely and effectively.

If you feel she's "impossible" because you can't jab a missile, you need to counterpick stages and know who excels at exposing her weaknesses. PAC-MAN, like Samus, wants you in uncomfortable positions, but Samus can do it more willfully against PAC-MAN because his options with dealing with projectiles are fewer than Samus. But in that MU, let hydrant get her out of position and abuse your fast fruits! Push space until you can land a tilt/aerial, most of which are faster than hers to get out.

TLDR; she was spammy in v0.9b, stop complaining that you can't jab missiles and start power shielding or being creative with approaches. Tomahawk grabs should do nicely.

Well, I'm not complaining about jabbing missles -- I was never big on that counter anyway, preferring to dodge during an approach instead. "Impossible" was a bit of an exaggeration, as in my second match with a Samus-player (and the ones that followed) I was able to use to successfully win. Hydrant wasn't terribly reliable except as a kill-option (great way to nix recovery from below an edge), but my projectile speed and usage was on-par. Also, the trampoline demolishes Samus' current play-style since that gives you both high mobility, a good escape option for projectiles, and trolling options (Yes, a properly positioned trampoline will interact with one of Samus' missiles. Not sure it that is intended or not at this point, but I got it to happen at least twice with the tracking missiles).

Samus, I think, is one of those characters now that puts you in a solid win-lose scenario. If you're caught at a disadvantage, she can punish you, particularly if your char has weak projectiles/mobility. I've played a few games with her, so here's some thoughts:

1)
Right now the projectile game is working because people are still getting used to the new Samus' dynamics. The projectiles are, indeed, improved overall, but they can't be relied on as the kill-game like before unless you are going against low-mobility/large-hitbox chars. High-mobility chars are your bane now since they trash your projectile game.

2)
Use your melee. For many of the chars that will give you trouble due to mobility Samus isn't necessarily as strong as them, but she is faster and has equal or better reach. Currently the knockback on Samus melee is good enough to be used as a way to "buy space" if a melee player is crowding you.

3)
Don't camp. This might seem like a good idea, but you are wasting the fact that you are playing a char with at least decent mobility. Use that to keep yourself away from a position that can give melee players an advantage.

Manta, I had to pause this video I was watching to even comprehend the s*** that you put down.
9b samus was fast and amazing.
Beta samus goal is to spam projectiles to force people onto the ground, then Fair or CS them to die at 50%
9b Morphsliding was not 'easy' but was super rewarding. Beta morphsliding is easy to do, situationally not that great, and not very rewarding due to the little pause that you have to go through before you start sliding.
9b samus WAS hard to juggle because she had a decent air mobility and good landing options in airdodgeZair, Nair, Bair, downB, beta samus has NO air mobility compared.
And calling 9b samus low tier just flat out irritates me. She was high mid-tier because she had options for everything, not just a strong projectile game...And did you just say beta samus is mid tier... I'm not even.

Do you even have any idea what 9b Samus was like manta. like how even do you come to these conclusions.

The most updated revision of the SSF2 v0.9b tier list has Samus at 20, literally the very bottom of low-mid tier. She historically hasn't performed well, citing exactly what you deny -- combos worked on her over a wide percent range, her projectiles weren't difficult to deal with, and most of her options were slow and didn't combo well into kill confirms outside of down throw --> charge shot.

As someone who has played a good bit of Samus and the likes of Sheik and ZSS at a rather high level (read as: going toe-to-toe with one of the best Samus players east coast had to offer and trading matches) I saw her v0.9b upsides AND downsides. Most kills were off good reads or at 130%+ confirmed jab+dsmash or down throw + charge shot kills (typically dependant on the character I chose and DI in a given situation that was read well).

Even just the inherent engine changes make Samus more mobile and give her far better neutral options. You should at least be able to see THAT without deriding me as a person. Missile cancelling is actually a meaningful thing to do to pressure an opponent because of transcendent priority. Those 2 things alone make her quite a bit better from v0.9b.

Playing against Beta Samus is not just "tomahawk grab, mix up approaches": Samus has such tools and she needs so much respect that characters who can't really mix up their angles suffer immensely. Characters like Peach and Fox that thrive on the space above the ground get shut down hard by missiles, landing with full hop approaches is difficult because of usmash and dash-back pivot grab covering so much, and even hitting shield isn't all that helpful because of OoS nair and up-B. She can kill you really early, and she can combo into a move that does 37%. Even reflecting isn't super useful for approaching, because if she fires more than one projectile they won't cancel and you still have to deal with the second. Zair, dtilt, nair, and fair are all really good burst options, and Bombs are amazing for landing. Because of her unique weight-gravity combo, and her landing game, she's really difficult to punish with a lot of the cast, although she still dies early to good vertical killers which is a weakness.

She's very very hard to combo in 9b. She would simply move to the side during a combo. Best thing to do is juggle with marth or lloyd, but even then it's not easily done. She was never in the position where she couldn't get out of. Nair was really good, Zair the milk and honey, and Bomb drop. Plus 3 more other options made her one of the hardest characters to combo. Her neutral isn't as good as some of you think, because the moment she's off the ground she's in a bad situation. Remember she's not getting out of them combo's anymore... She has no real close combat options in air. Hence why you see so many Samus's use up B.

Her current moprh slide is indeed great allowing for great needed movement. I like to magicly think my b**** help push her and the game to what it is now I remember during a tourney fighting one of the devs I was b**** about movement. I won, but it was crazy hard to do so due to everyone being lightning fast compared to her. Which is why I love the current speed that's going on right now. (Meaning she's not really getting speed blitz'd by everyone. The game balanced out in speed.) If anyone thinks the game speed was balanced before Fox vs Samus is your answer. Speed difference was crazy.

I'm not going to really go into Beta Samus problems that much as I'm just changing and improving my game now. One thing i do still want changed is clashing between projectiles. Projectiles vs projectiles is currently boring... make it fun again.

Just remember that the trading system is disabled. I'm guessing that the current "everything is transcendental" properties of her projectiles is a temporary measure to prevent her from being useless until it becomes possible to destroy projectiles without making the opponent totally immune from the missile's effects by just throwing out moves. In Melee, attacking a missile was a sure-fire way to get blasted unless you spaced something like Marth's fair to destroy the missile while keeping out of its blast radius.