I actually have fun fighting ZSS. Idk if it's just me, but finding an opportunity to get in dat a** and punish hard against brick-wall defense with a character like Wario is one of the most satisfying feelings.

Yea I just suck at the game lol

The only reason I want her to get nerfed is so that I gain the respect I deserve as a player.

Is it me or did that sound so arrogant...? Just for the record: You are respected as a player. Its just your personality that is... contorversial and makes you get the hate you get. To fix that, youd need to change your behaviour. Not your playstyle.

Skailler, it's not just you.

Since when have people said that you only win because of ZSS or anything close to that? You definitely benefit both from the lack of experience against ZSS's that people have and that she's a good character, but people don't whine about ZSS anything like they whine about Lloyd, MK, Naruto, Zelda, etc. She's more like Fox: people think she's good, but they don't think of her as super janky or broken. You're blowing this way out of proportion.

honestly, i find her to be absurdly OP. after some practice with her, every time i go online i seem to shred everyone i meet. people who actually use tactics, and display some good techs online, get murdered mercilessly.

and at the same time, every time an opponent uses her instead of me, i get my face steamrolled and lose sometimes 4 to 1. i just cant do s*** against her in online. her attacks simply connect too quickly and cover too much space, and the window of time we have to dodge is nulified by lag, at least in my case.

it gets ridiculous really, but honestly i much prefer a normal match with no one using her. she feels way too broken when i use her, and when someone half decent uses her against me.

The only reason people hate you is because you can be a massive dick.

DAMN

Changelist
Buffs
•Up Smash is identical to its Smash4 variant. Where ZSS twirls her whip in the air like a lasso. Has better trapping and can KO around 130%.
•Nair has has longer horizontal range.
•Flip Jump is similar to it's Smash4 variant. ZSS rises higher into the air and can control the horizontal distance she travels.
•Forward Air connects both hits better.

Nerfs
•Nair has much thinner vertical range.
•Fsmash has much tighter vertical range, no longer hitting under the ledge. It also has a few frames more endlag.
•Flip Jump can only be used once midair.
•ZSS can only tether to the ledge 3 times before she has to land back on stage.
•Flip Jump no longer has invincibility during the startup.
•Paralyzer no longer has transcendent priority.

Neutral
•ZSS's whip has a new, more electric visual effect. Effecting all attacks that use her whip.

•ZSS has a new taunt where she sashays her whip and says "Try me."

Buffs:
Sm4sh Nair (Better reach, easier for comboing)
Usmash hits links easier
Fair hits connect better
Dthrow doesn't send the opponent forward, but sends them Upward. (Sm4sh Dthrow)
Make Dair go 2 times faster.
Flip jump goes further, make sourspot stronger
The Grab has ridiculous endlag. Lower than, and maybe give it slightly more reach.

Nerfs:
Bair should have less shield push back
Fair should be less powerful
Jab shouldn't hit from under the ledge, and give it less priority PLEASE
Fsmash shouldn't hit from under the ledge, buff its power but allow it to knock you higher up.
Flip Jump should only be used once
Dsmash shouldn't have transparent priority
Make her jump a bit lower, or make her fastfaller. (This isn't really a nerf, but meh.) She can recover from the bottom of Tower of Salvation?

Absolutely. It's really dumb how the move can't be challenged, and you get the disadvantage 95% of the time if you trade with her.

I honestly believe no projectile should be transcendent so they can clank with themselves and other projectiles on their level.

Yes. Her jumps are way higher than they need to be. Lower them.

That sounds like too much. The Brawl tether rule sounds good enough. That way she retains her ability to mix-up options on the ledge - without being ability to stay on the ledge infinitely at a near impossibly unapproachable position (run-off Back-air is unfavorably risky).

I'd also get rid of Flip-Jump's invincible start-up. Just minimize low-risk non-DI escape options in the game as much as possible. Encourage players to DI better instead of giving them mash-able options.

Hell. No. That would basically give her a wavedash with a landing hitbox.

Super Changelist
Stats
● Initial/Stage Jump is a smidge shortened in height.
● ZSS has a crawl.

Jab
● Jab1 has less priority and the hitbox is much smaller.
● Her Jab Combo links into each other better.

Forward Smash
● The hitbox is thinner, no longer hitting under the ledge or above her head. The back hitbox is also much smaller.

Up Smash
● Similar to Smash4 Up Smash, ZSS twirls her whip overhead like a lasso. Has better horizontal range, trapping, and has more knockback. KOing above 130%.
● Has slightly less vertical range.

Neutral Air
● Has more horizontal range.
● The hitbox is thinner vertically.

Forward Air
● The first hit has less knockback and is faster, leading into the second hit much more consistently.
● The second hit has less knockback, no longer making it a KO move.

Neutral Special: Paralyzer
● No longer has Transcendent priority.
●Has a thicker look akin to the official games, making it easier to see.

Down Special: Flip Jump
● No longer has invincibility on startup.

Up Special: Plasma Wire
● ZSS can only snap to the ledge 3 times before having to land on the stage. After the third time Plasma Wire won't snap to the ledge.
or
Up Special: Boost Kick
● Similar to Smash4's Boost Kick, ZSS will quickly rise into the air while extending her leg upwards. At the apex of the jump she will deliver a powerful aerial kick.
A good combo finisher and new KO move(Commonly KOs around 110% center stage.)
● Due to lacking her Heel Boots in SSF2 Boost Kick has less horizontal range on startup. Meaning the opponent has to basically be on top of or directly next to ZSS for this move to connect. It also lacks invincibility on startup.


Please feel free to discuss! Basicallly ZSS has more KO power in Usmash and Boost Kick. Along with Having Bair and Fsmash in her arsenal of finishers.
Some moves are more consistent like Fair and Usmash.

I'd say it shouldn't hit behind her either, it's not necessary considering how strong it is.


Although it could be a fair nerf, it feels too unintuitive that "randomly" the up special won't work as intended. I'd make it so you only get invincibility once before landing onstage when snaping with the wire.


Reducing the vertical range and giving it more horizontal range defeats the purpose of the move imo.

The rest of the changes seem good.

You're kinde right about the back hit on Fsmash.

Also what do you mean about Plasma Wire? It won't "randomly" stop working. ZSS has 3 snaps to the ledge just like Brawl.

Also have you seen smash4 up smash? It's still a gigantic vertical disjoint!
Just now it sacrifices a tiny bit of vertical range for some horizontal hitbox placement. Hence the lasso like animations.
It's mainly so the multihits on this move have a better trapping area.

I didn't remember how smash4 up smash worked, but now I see your point. I don't think it's necessary to make it work like it but isn't a bad idea either and looks cool.

About plasma wire I don't have brawl with me so I can't check how that works; and by "randomly" I didn't mean it literally, just that it'd be weird that arbitrarily the third time you did up special it didn't work as "intended" (compare that to the whole roster, whose up specials all work always the same).