I think most of you guys just suck at fighting Marth . If you're getting tippered too much, I bet you're also getting Eric Clapton'd by DK too much, or whipped by ZSS. If you have spacing issues, there are other attacks out there that will do you in just as bad. While I do agree that Marth needs to be nerfed, it's most likely to his DS and side B, which are moves I pretty much never use offensively, so whatever. And sure, nerf fsmash. I pretty much only use it for edge guarding and platforms, and there are waaaaay easier edge guarding tools in this game.

To contradict myself, Marth players just have it too easy. It just feels too easy to get a tipper because of his increased range. Also, not like its easy to avoid getting tipper f smashed by a good marth. Oh sorry I guess those terms arent used anymore with that character. But I feel if his range was decreased with giving him more power it would reward you for playing that character for spacing properly which to even do you'd need a mix of offense and defense which is what Marth is supposed to be about.

That is pretty much Marth in a nutshell.

Good players don't get hit by fsmash all that often. That's the truth. When I play Lunary, I know I can barely fsmash because he's always anticipating it. Same can be said by any player who can make adjustments.

Haha yeah. Its sucks because what would be considered "legit Marth" is no fsmash or side b, (in my eyes anyway) and frankly that's just impossible unless you wanna be a really bad Marth.

F-Smash has been quite an important move for Marth in most iterations. You can probably go without using it, but that's like trying to play Fox without Down-B lol

-Fsmash was important because it was his best (and pretty much only) kill move. At least in this game we have tipper bair to kill with.

-Tippers didn't get buffed per se, they just got fixed.

-Back in like the first couple weeks of Marth's release, I played a game against a competent smasher. I used bthrow/dthrow the entire game, conditioning him to hold away from me. Then, when he was at a high enough percent on his last stock I used fthrow. Naturally, he DI'd for the bthrow, but DI out on bthrow = DI in on fthrow. I knew what he was going to do, read the DI, and got a tipper fsmash to win the game
Just wait till ppl start dtilting

Seeing how easy it is for Marth players and how hard it is for Wario players (aka, Me) made me forfeit that tourney yesterday and get salty. I'm kinda guilty that the tourney eventually fell apart once I left.

Marth being the popular fan-favorite his is pretty much discouraged me from joining anymore tourneys.

Wario never has to approach and can easily manage two early % kills. Doof, I probably inflicted 200%+ more than you in our match and you still took me to last stock mid %. How am I supposed to feel sorry for that?

You know I had to wait a whole minute to get those kills. "Yeah, lemme wait a whole minute while I get rushed down and comboed by Marth! Lemme wait a whole minute while Marth completely shuts down my offense! Lemme wait a whole minute while I get outranged and outsped by Marth in every way!"

Marth isn't even a great rush down character. With your weaving ability, it takes time for me to get a solid opening knowing if I miss I get punished pretty hard. Plus there's the added pressure of knowing I have to approach or I'll get wafted. Point is, they're not going to tailor the game to your main, Doof. I'm not married to Marth. I play him no more than I play Fox, Falcon or Mario. If I were you, I'd pick up a new character to deal with certain MUs. Or you can follow up on your threat of quitting the game, but I'd prefer the former.

I agree with sparty88. even though I'm not amazing at this game just average. There have been multiple times when I say f*** it to defense and I'll get punished hard. Marth is , as said earlier, a character who has to switch between defense and offense. He can't just stick with one because there always will be an opening.

I'd punish Marth's openings hard if I wasn't maining a slow fatass named Wario.

Heavy enough to get comboed to death. Hell if I get hit once by a sword I know I'm getting 50% up my a**.

Having to approach in order to avoid Wario Waft? Not at all; I still have to deal with landing it, and Marth can still keep Wario at bay.

I probably should pick up a char for Marth. Wario's too slow to effectively punish him. f*** it, I'm gonna main Marth now.

I just think it's funny that people expect their main to be able to deal with every character in the game. That has never been the case in any smash game, more specifically melee, which is the only reason anyone plays smash games competitively in the first place. Hell, if Wario were a melee character, I highly doubt he'd be viable. The fact that he's not only viable in this game but damn good with waft and pretty damn good without it is an accomplishment in itself. PM, which is laboriously balanced for competitive play, has Wario sitting dead in the middle. Not only is he better in SSF2, he counters a solid portion of the cast pretty hard. I don't see how you can ask for much more.

Coming from a guy who doesn't main Wario.

I dunno why players who don't main Wario claim he's good. I mained Wario for a long, long time. And I can tell you that the only thing keeping him even close to viable is his jank.

I thought my opinions on Wario would be acceptable, but that isn't the case here.

I'll just let the devs listen to everyone else.