This is a tournament meant to experiment with a non-conventional ruleset. I'm bored w/ the copypaste ruleset everyone's using. YAWN. Let's try some new stuff!

http://challonge.com/SSF2Experiment
7/21/15 @ 8:30 PM ET

All competitors must check in 15 minutes before the tournament begins and all matches will be arranged at:
http://twitch.tv/TheSilenceOfNoOne

MAIN RULES
Double Elimination
Items off
3 Stocks, 6 minutes
All matches are Best of 3, except WF, LF, and GF which are Best of 5.
Stage striking is 1-2-2-1 for neutrals, and winner can ban three [3] stages from the counterpick list.

STAGE RULES
Smashville Clause (Stage Variety Clause) [SVC] - A neutral stage can ONLY be selected during the first match. Players MUST select a hazardous stage from the list of counterpicks for the rest of the set. You can't play every match on Smashville, sorry.
Dave's Stupid Rule [DSR] - You cannot counterpick back to a stage that you've already won on. This overrides Gentleman's Clause.
Gentleman's Clause [GC] - TO discretion: If players agree, and the selection does not violate DSR, players can override the stagelist/stage-striking and play on any stage that they would like so long as the hazard requirement is fulfilled from SVC. (Note: The position of the stage hazard switch is not what determines if a stage is hazardous or not! For example, Bowser's Castle with Hazards off is still considered hazardous due to lava. This is why TO approval is required.)
Replay Clause [RC] - As the point of this tournament is to test new things, replays are required to be saved. If no replay of the match is submitted on Challonge, for bracket purposes the match has never taken place and will need to be replayed.



STAGELIST
Neutrals (HAZARDS OFF)

• Smashville
• Battlefield
• Pokemon Stadium III
• Final Destination
• Jungle Hijinx
• Dream Land
• Yoshi's Story

Counterpicks (HAZARDS ON)

• Nintendo 3DS
• Hylian Skies
• Mirror Chamber
• Central Highway
• Castle Siege
• Casino Night Zone

Did I miss something

i f*** hate him

rude

lmfao, im dead af
I would join but I'm on hiatus till beta

Salty Suite incoming? Dawk having the biggest stream of a lifetime? Winner gets the dev spot??

Even in threads that aren't the Salty Suite thread, my f*** god. Whats your obsession with this s***.

Also, i'd love to play but SSF2 still doesn't work with my "router settings."

Already calling it:

No offense to the TO (tson is a cool guy), this tournament is going to crash and burn. I can't even say that in a professional manner.

I still sense salt from ETS5

If it crashes and burns, then good. It's a learning experience. I'd much rather run an unconventional ruleset and get the community experimenting than to copy and paste everyone else's ruleset. But I guess it's too much to ask for more than three entrants unless I copypaste X or Smash Island's ruleset, lmfao.

I'm pretty sick of how one-dimensional our tournaments end up being. I mostly understand that tours have to play it safe, but it's pretty dumb how change-resistant the community is. It's almost toxic that a tournament with even just a different stock setup, or different time setup is near-laughable. I'll assume the stagelist stuff is the thing that's really "funny" to you, though.
I'll just say this - we could have a good tier list shuffle if every match wasn't on Smashville and people learned how stages work and which ones benefit/detriment which characters. No. I'm not talking about a stage with one platform versus a stage with two. Imagine; we discover two stages that MK and ZSS are really bad on. Suddenly the entire metagame changes because you can counterpick to these stages. Or, you could be lazy and type "GM 2 SV? LOL" in the chat and get f*** wrecked.

I mean, you (and everyone else) can continue copypasting your rulesets and maybe switchin' in a stage once every 8 tournaments in your tour, that's fine. But don't throw shade when I want to test, experiment, and encourage some community/metagame evolution.

Well said.

Slay tson

Doq i think it's best if you just dont

Nintendo 3DS: Definitely not. The tetris hazard covers the whole stage when completed, and since the ledges are down below, the only way to edgeguard is to edgehog. Continuing combos would be so hard with the limited space until the pattern is finished, and
just look at what the neutral would be reduced to.

When it switches to the grassy area (whatever it's called), It's way too big. The platform layout causes all kinds of trouble. Really bad neutral and way too good of a punish game here.
If you make a mistake against a Goku, you can get d-throw chaingrabbed until the grassy area disappears. Speaking of disappears, if you aren't aware when the stage changes, your stock is gone. it may be just me, but I can't seem to find any indicator. Also, you can't really seem edgeguard here either. Nope to this too.

The transformation where you start to get flipped around just wastes time. All you can do is try to kill your opponent which'll never happen because they'll just float out of your reach. Another no.

Lastly, the ping pong. It keeps the stage the same, but when the things bounce back and forth, it's pretty confusing.
You can't do anything in the air once this happens. TSON, tourney's test skill. Not just who can dodge the hazards, that's pretty much what this is.

People already dislike 3DS for it's ledges. They'd have more of a reason to hate it if 3DS with hazards on became legal.

I get that you hate SV;
I get that you want to try something new;
I get another PS would be cool;
But 3DS doesn't need to have it's hazards on.
Half of these stages don't.

Anyways, let me continue:

Mirror Chamber: Already illegal, putting hazards on it won't help, AT ALL. The doors are everywhere, which makes this small stage even smaller. You can rarely use the platforms to your advantage because you have to remember that the doors can open any time without you knowing and forcing you into a free hit or ending your combos fast.
Edgeguarding on this stage.. Everyone with recovery that usually has to go onstage would do bad here. Neutral is bad, Punish game is stopped by doors... Nope to this stage.

Tower of SymphoniaSalvation: The lady? on this stage may not kill until 140%, like you mentioned on the stream. But, what if she catches Lloyd's double jump or someone else with a bad recovery because they were trying to extend their combos and die at 20%? When she drops down, she goes too fast for reaction. When the platforms shoot the beams, it's too fast for reaction. Now, these don't kill, but any % counts. Those things that come off the side are a little bit more predictable, but if you're offstage, all you can try do is roll up into any free punish. This stage is still really good though, it's just these hazards don't help it at all.

Hylian Skies and Central Highway I'm alright with, and you've proven your point with Castle Siege already.


But, why not Yoshi's island? Or Saturn Valley? Distant planet? Sky Sanctuary? Dreamland?

Jungle Hijinx being neutral's pretty questionable, but oh well.



And finally, I just have one last thing to say: DSR and SVC dont seem to work together unless Bo5.

Players obviously need to experience and memorize these stages to perform well on them. This is part of the metagame evolution. Correctly being able to use the hazard to your advantage will negate any of the downsides. The weirdest stages will lead to the weirdest things happening to top tier characters that are MADE for the kind of flat, basic, non-hazardous stages that we play on. There's a reason our top tier characters are not sliding down the tier list. ZSS for example has no KO options on this transformation and is one of the characters easiest to vertically kill in the game with regards to weight and fallspeed combination. She also can be gimped easier if she does not have the option to use downB to flip onto the stage when ledge stalling.

The tetris hazard I think is probably the weakest part of the stage but I thought it was worth testing whether or not shielding the blocks will be a viable stalling tactic. If it is, we can rule out this being a legal stage next time.


The only thing that changes is the camera boundaries. So... I can definitely tell you've never played on this stage against humans.


That's the point? "When the stage transforms it doesn't look like FD anymore : ( ((((("
This is a temporary transformation that gives advantage to different character archetypes. It needs to be tested.


Just like if you allow someone in Melee to get under the tree in Stadium you can't approach until the transformation changes? Oh.
Also, since these pop up and down so quickly there is no way you're going to get more than two dthrows.


1. It's a set time, and the hazard automatically disconnects you from the ground when the next part rises. You can't be KO'd by it.
And, again, the lack of gimping/edgeguarding for a couple of seconds makes a different kind of character better.


No, it doesn't. This forces characters that are advantageous on the ground to rise off of it. This hits Goku users and MK users hard because they have low airspeeds without being able to dash, and their range isn't the greatest because of it.


That's the point?!?!? Unlike the VVVVV hazard, this one forces you to stay on the ground, so characters that usually approach by jumping get stuffed. You think it's a coincidence that these dots don't bounce off of the ground? This was calculated.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. Wah wah I don't want to learn how stages work and use them to my advantage :(((((
You've NEVER even played on 3DS except for against CPUs once when v0.9b first came out.
Counterpicking is supposed to boost your character and nerf your opponent's character. That's the whole point. Adding a f*** platform makes the most miniscule difference ever. Almost none at all. That's why everyone just GM's to Smashville. Because they're lazy and there's no point right now to learn striking because the advantage between stages is so little it'll make near no difference.

If you get hit by a stage hazard or a stage hazard causes your death it is still because you lack skill. If there are jank deaths like Wuhu Island on Smash 4 had that's another story. It is your job as a smasher to study stages just as much as you study characters so you do well in tournaments.


This is a proposal to un-bundle it with FD. If the hazards-on is legal as a CP then there's no reason to include hazards off as a neutral. There's a reason why I did that. There's a reason why I did everything. Obviously.


I dunno if you got the memo, but everyone loves this stage and it's legal in some of our tours right now. Lol.
Punish game is not stopped by doors. You just can't circle camp on the stage because the doors can suck you up. I'm not 100% sold on it but it deserves testing and that's why it's included. Just like everything else. Noticing a pattern?


Again, deserves testing. Everything she does has a very very very obvious visual cue. Try paying attention when you're on the stage. All of the hazards can also be shielded.


DL/SS hazard makes no difference besides jank KOs. It does not affect matchups.
YI, DP, DL have circle camping layout issues. SV has some pretty ridiculous wall infinites unfortunately. And the hazard is basically useless.


Why do you say that?