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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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Yeah, with a really high mash speed you can recover from underneath FD with upspec alone.
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:08 pm |
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Justin Lu
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:42 pm Posts: 3 Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
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Donkey Kong's cargo throw can only throw in one direction
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Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:09 pm |
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Sorabotics
BR Member
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:40 pm Posts: 1502
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Sorabotics
Currently Playing: SSBM and SSF2
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DK has a lot of representation online, and all the DKs I played were really good. Especially with landing DK punches
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Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:20 am |
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_ &
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:33 am Posts: 10 Location: The Lab Country:
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Donkey Kong: A Comprehensive Guide In this post, I will be breaking down everything from his moveset applications to advanced techniques. If you main DK, want to learn DK, or simply want to improve your matchup against him, you just might learn a thing or two here. DK is a combo-centric aggressive brawler with an array of close to midrange tools to keep opponents under constant pressure. He excels at finishing his opponents early, punishing good reads or bad tech, and boasts above average recovery. On the downside, he lacks long range and projectile options, is rather susceptible to zoning, and is very large, allowing enemies to link combos that they may not be able to on other members of the roster. This puts DK in a pseudo glass cannon position, as both he and his enemy can be very adept at putting out great deals of % in a single combo. If you're looking to play DK, you are looking to succeed based on your own technical skill and ability to read your opponent by punishing their weaknesses and bad decisions with swift death. The Moveset These are DK's ground attacks- jabs, tilts, and the like. You'll find DK has a great combination of knockback, speed, and range in these moves. None of these attacks are without their uses and you should be comfortable with all of their properties. Jab (Attack)A quick, shortrange attack. By pressing attack twice in succession, the punch will be followed up by an uppercut. This attack has low knockback, but is relatively safe. The uppercut knocks upwards, making this a solid combo starter or extension, especially at low to medium percent. This move is a good, noncomittal choice in the ground game and is a decent mixup if you start to getting too comfortable with your other options, especially grab. If the enemy enjoys spotdodging, then the second hit will connect after the first whiffs. If the enemy enjoys rolling, the first hit has very little endlag and will allow you to convert to punish with relative ease. If the enemy enjoys shielding, keep in mind that the uppercut is pretty punishable on shield, so do not follow up with the chain unless you expect them to lower shield after the first jab. If the enemy misses a ground tech, the initial jab is weak enough to jab reset pretty much anyone ever, allowing for guaranteed punish or free DK punches. (jiggly at ~196%) Ftilt (Right/Left held down + Attack) This is DK's poking tool- it has great range and moderate endlag. If your opponent is playing a spacing game against you, this is definitely going to be one of your options. Because this move comes out quickly and has such good range, it is a decent (though not your best) option for parrying physical attacks and projectiles, stuffing approaches, and punishing bad spacing. Despite these positive attributes, it's not an incredibly integral part of DK's game as the horizontal knockback in combination with the high chance that you are using this attack on an already distanced target will likely prevent you from following it up with anything. Fun Fact: The end of the attack does have a hitbox slightly above DK's head, which increases its potential value for stuffing short hop approaches. Dtilt (Down held down + Attack)Yet again we have a decently ranged, relatively safe ground move. It's faster than Ftilt, but loses out on some range and knockback. Because of these features in combination with a lower trajectory, this move is more useful for scooping a missed ground tech and edgeguarding, though it's not your best option for either. In general this should be used as a safer option to ftilt if the enemy is in range, and is a really good tool for safely dealing with players who overuse dash attacks, as depending on the dash attack it will either counter or stop them in their tracks. Utilt (Up held down + Attack)This is a very potent member of DK's arsenal. It covers a good arc and has moderate vertical knockback. If you're looking to take a low percent enemy into some good-old-fasioned juggling, especially in platformed stages, this will likely be in the mix. That being said, utilt is not great outside of juggling, as it covers a small distance in any one direction and can be easily punished on whiff. It's also not a great KO move- the knockback is too high for juggles at mid percent but too low to KO anywhere but far beyond 100. Dash Attack (Attack while Dashing)DK's dash attack is a valuable tool, it has light armor and can be followed up at mid percent. Use this as an approach mixup, a tech chase option, or to punish a read. Due to its armor properties this attack can be useful for dealing with some characters' pesky projectiles and zoning tools (such as Mario's fireballs, Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, Chibi Robo's Chibi-Blaster, Lloyd's Demon Fang/Double Demon Fang, and level 1-3 of Mega Man's Mega Buster.) Zero Suit Samus' Paralyzer will stun regardless, but will not knockback if the dash attack is timed properly. Do not use this move frugally or as your primary approach option, as the hitbox ends much earlier than the attack animation may lead you to believe. It is very punishable! DK's aerials are the core of his game, in here you can find combo extenders, juggling moves, zoning tools, and finishers. These are the attacks that will see the most use in an average fight, so know them like the back of your hand! Nair (Attack while in the air)DK's Nair is his bread & butter, it's a very safe, very potent offensive tool that has almost no startup or landing lag. Whether you're fishing for hits in aerial footsies, facing shield pressure, or attempting to create some pressure of your own, a SHFF'd nair is likely your best choice. The initial hitbox has greater knockback and damage than the rest of the attack, so change your attack timing depending on what you want from your nair. Fair (Attack + Direction currently facing while in the air)This is a heavy-hitting, multi-purpose aerial attack with either large horizontal knockback or spike depending on your timing and spacing. Due to the move's noticeable startup time and landing lag, it should not be thrown around carelessly and is best used as a situational combo-ender or for off-stage edgeguarding. To spike your opponent, the shine at the end of the animation has to connect with the opponent, making this feature incredibly precise and unreliable. Fun Fact: if timed properly a SH'd fair can connect in a small arc over your head, allowing it to be used as an anti-air option or to simply convert a combo into edgeguarding much sooner against characters with very gimpable recoveries. Bair (Attack + opposite Direction currently facing while in air)Yet another very potent option in DK's air game. While it has longer startup time than nair, it has better reach and good knockback. As this is a much better option than fair in a neutral spacing/footsies game, you will often have your back to your enemy so that you have the option of SHFF'd nair, bair, or uair. This move is best used to convert to edgeguard or to space and mixup enemies that are getting comfortable with punishing your nair (especially with shield grabs, as a maxrange bair will leave you out of the grab range of everyone without a tether.) If the enemy has longer range on their normals (such as sword-wielders or ZSS), this will likely be your safest offensive option from the air. This is also one of DK's best choices for off-stage edgeguarding. Dair (Attack + Down while in air)Dair is a high knockback meteor with moderate startup and end/landing lag. This can be used to start a combo on a grounded target, or to gimp a predictable recovery. Like the fair, this is pretty punishable and shouldn't be used casually- if you get a good read this is a decent punish tool as it leads into any number of moves effortlessly. You probably won't be using this move often, but don't underestimate its situational utility. You can get some really low percent KOs on careless players with a simple Dair into DK punch! Uair (Attack + Up while in air)This is DK's #1 juggling tool- it has the perfect amount of vertical knockback and great speed. Get a low percent enemy in the air and you can juggle them mercilessly with these things- this method is incredibly potent on platformed stages like Yoshi's Story or Battlefield where you can continue your juggle to even greater heights. The quick animation also allows it to chase DI really effectively, giving you a lot of options to end your chain. If you are in a stage with a shoter blastzone or have a lighter opponent, try finishing with a Usmash. If you are against an enemy with a gimpable recovery, send them offstage as soon as possible. If you have a DK Punch, finish with a DK punch. If none of these apply, just wrack up as much % as you can safely and send them offstage. DK's Smash attacks are relatively fast, high knockback moves that will allow you to convert to edgeguard or straight up KO opponents. If you want raw damage, look no further. Fsmash (Attack + Left/Right Simultaneously)DK's Fsmash is a potent KO option. It has good range, a lot of knockback, and is surprisingly fast. If your enemy is at medium-high percent, this is probably the best and lowest-risk way to send them out on a read. If the enemy makes a poorly-spaced recovery attempt, take him out with fsmash. If the enemy misses tech or simply leaves themselves open for a hit, this will send them offstage without the need for anything technical or combo-based. Clean and simple. Dsmash (Attack + Down Simultaneously)Like many Dsmashes, this covers both sides of your character and is a good option when you're expecting the enemy may try to roll to your other side. It has moderate endlag but covers a good distance and has diagonal knockback that sends the enemy upwards and towards DK. This should not be ruled out as a low percent combo option as it can add a lot of percent while keeping your combo going, reducing the need for large air chains and having to deal with as much enemy DI. If the enemy loves to roll, try this as an offensive mixup. Keep in mind that this attack does not connect at the start of the animation (when DK's hands are at the apex of their swing). It will, however, connect shortly afterwards when the hands are traveling down (at around DK's ear-level). Usmash (Attack + Up Simultaneously)This is yet another fast, strong attack with decent range. It has strong upwards knockback and can KO lighter members of the cast from 65-75%. A pretty straightforward move. If the enemy is on a platform above you, this is an option (though likely not as good as a utilt or uair). Keep in mind that this attack does not connect on the ground during any of the startup, the hitbox is strictly above DK. Unless your opponent is DK and you are pretty much occupying the same space, this attack will not hit a grounded or even horizontally approaching target. DK's specials are full of intricacies and are an integral part of his game in high-level play. Intelligent and technical application of these moves can make or break your DK's effectiveness. NSpec (Special) (Charge) (Punch) This move is absolutely incredible. After ~2.5 seconds of charge time, you will have a ready-to-rumble, incredibly fast, incredibly safe punch with ridiculous knockback. The charge can be stored and gained through multiple charge attempts, and there are some interesting tricks around this that we will look at in more detail under the advanced techniques section. Pressing the button a second time while charging will use the punch prematurely, but it still gets power from the amount of time it has charged up to this point. Do not underestimate a half-baked DK Punch. A large portion of DK's game will revolve around combos that end with this move. If you have a charge ready, there are a myriad of 0-Death setups for DK that we will look at in the execution section. SSpec (Special + Right/Left)This is a short range headbutt that has different properties depending on your enemy's position. The attack will meteor an aerial target, while it will bury a grounded target in dirt, allowing for free hits (but no grabs). Though this is not a great offensive tool to use in the neutral game, it does have some utility that is worth looking at. If used in the air, it will stall DK in his current position. Though you will forfeit your horizontal momentum, this can be used as a recovery mixup to bait the opponent's edgeguard. If the enemy missed a ground tech and is laying on the floor, this move will bury them. If their percent is high enough that a DK Punch or Fsmash will KO them, consider this as another option to the jab reset. Dspec (Special + Down)This is DK's most underrated move, he slams the ground creating a shockwave that knocks enemies upwards and towards DK in a predictable arc. This attack induces an extroadinary amount of hitstun, allowing it to chain easily and setup virtually anything. If you hold down the special button/key DK will slam the ground repeatedly, but it is best to simply end the attack after one slam. This makes the move relatively safe as it is incredibly fast and applies greater-than-average shieldstun. The shockwave can also destroy a lot of weak projectiles, as well as PK fire. This method may be better than DK's other options (such as Dash attack & Uspec) because it's situationally safer and prevents DK from taking any damage. If the enemy misses a ground tech, this is often what i'll use to punish because it's so easy to combo off of. Keep in mind this attack only collides with grounded targets, if the enemy approaches with a lot of SH'd aerials then you could get yourself in trouble with this attack. By holding a directional key in combination with this ability in the air, DK can change the direction he is facing. This is a great way to turn your back on an opponent you are edgeguarding or approaching, allowing the use of bair without having to deal with dashing turn speeds or pivot tech. USpec (Special + Up)PSA: By pressing the Special button/key from the air while this move is active, you will move up in exchange for some horizontal distance. The more you press, the higher you will go. This move is really good. It has so many technical applications and boasts some serious recovery range. The startup has great knockback and super armor, the spin blocks all sorts of projectiles and has really good priority. The last hit on the grounded version has greater knockback than the rest, allowing you to setup a combo at certain percents or put your opponent on a platform to prevent punishing. You can also go offstage during the grounded version to cancel the move early by grabbing the ledge. This move is incredible for both off-stage edgeguarding and dealing with shield pressure. Punishing this attack during the animation requires some very specific tools and situations that some members of the roster just won't have access to, making this move a lot safer than you would think, and in combination with some advanced tech this can be not only one of DK's safest moves, but allow for some hilarious mixups and opens up all sorts of punish opportunities. We will see a lot more of Uspec in the advanced technique and application sections. DK has a very potent grab game that allows him to open up all sorts of opportunities. He has chain grabs, combo setups, and the notorious cargo suicide! As a DK player, you will be grabbing a lot, so it's very important to know the ins-and-outs of his different options out of grab. Fthrow (Grab -> Direction currently facing)Also known as Cargo Throw, DK will put the enemy on his back allowing movement in either direction as well as jumping. This allows you to position the enemy somewhere more favorable before initiating the throw, such as closer to the edge or around platforms for a more effective follow-up. If the enemy is at mid percent and you want to convert to edgeguard, use this if you are facing the wrong way for a bair. If the enemy has poor vertical recovery and is at mid-high percent, walking off the edge with them will result in both of your deaths (the input required to break out of the grab is directly related to their percentage, so do not use this on a low percent target PERIOD). If the enemy is heavy or large, this can be a chain throw. (up to 56% on fox, 48% on DK, DI-able on both though it's much easier for DK) If the enemy is in a poor position or you want a platform to combo (on smashville or ToS, for instance), this throw will allow you to get to where you need to be. Some stages, such as Final Destination, will allow for stage spiking. Turn around, jump off the edge, and throw the enemy into the diagonal belly of the stage. At high enough percents this will net a KO, and with enough mashing you will be able to recover. Bthrow (Grab -> opposite Direction currently facing)This is your strongest throw. While not a great KO move on its own, this will be your best choice if you just want to get the opponent offstage. Dthrow (Grab -> Down) & Uthrow (Grab -> Up) I'm lumping these two throws together because they have very similar roles and interact with each other very closely in DK's chaingrab and setup game. They are both chainable from low to mid percent, but the Dthrow has lower knockback and moves slightly away from DK, whereas Uthrow simply goes above DK's head. Their minor diffences allow for versatility and setups at a greater percentage range than just 1 throw would allow, and makes it that much harder for your opponent to DI whatever you have to *ahem* throw at them. In general, Uthrow is better for combos and Dthrow is better for chaingrabs, but due to the nature of the game with varying weights, DI, and percentages, nothing is constant. Throws, especially these 2, will be looked at more in-depth in the application section. Advanced Techniques Here you will find some ways to use moves that you might not have known about. Do you run away from your opponent and spam roll to try and charge punch? Do you think Spinning Kong is bad? Read this. Safe and Discrete Charge with DK Punch Cancel: show DK's Punch takes about 2.5 seconds to charge fully, and seeing as it is his best KO move by far, it will be important to find the time and space to get charge time. Luckily, the charge can be initiated in the air and canceled with an airdodge. By SHFF'ing in this manner, it can become very easy to maintain acceptable levels or even finish a charge in the heat of battle. Your opponent may be very surprised to find that you have a charged DK punch in your arsenal! If you send an opponent offstage, do this a couple of times while converting to edgeguard. If there's ever any distance between you or an opponent, try inserting this into your approach to fill the dead space that would be spent dashing, you can even half jump so that the airdodge can be used to avoid projectiles. If you are ever in the air without intent to use an aerial, such as chasing a juggled target onto a platform or simply trying to land on a platform, use this. If you are sent vertically from a juggle or usmash and the enemy is attempting to follow up, the helplessness system in SSF2 prevents you from doing an airdodge until you initiate another action (such as a jump or aerial attack), but DK can immediately cancel a DK charge to airdodge on command, making him a hard target to combo beyond the range of anything guaranteed by hitstun. Also: The actual punching animation of DK Punch can be cancelled at any time with an airdodge- this can be used to prevent punishment on a whiffed punch, or to simply eliminate landing lag on a SH'd DK Punch. Punishing Reads with DK Punch: show DK Punch has super armor for the entire animation. The charge level of the punch does not matter, and as long as the attacks do not parry, you can land a DK punch while suffering the percentage of the enemy attack but not the knockback. To avoid parries on certain attacks, such as falcon punch or stronger fsmashes, make sure you time your DK Punch so that you are hit during the startup and not the actual punch. This can be a great way to turn around what your opponent thought was an advantageous position, and in combination with aerial punch cancels, the skies can be very unsafe for anyone trying to poach DK. If the enemy is attempting an Fsmash or other highly-telegraphed move and you have a 1/2 charge or greater, approach with a SH'd DK punch and cancel as soon as it lands. I guarantee you they will never do that again. If the enemy is attempting to end a combo while you are out of hitstun, or simply don't react well enough to your DI and miss a link, consider sending them off with a smile with the help of DK punch. Blocking and Parrying with Spinning Kong: show This is one of the many incredibly handy uses of DK's Uspec. The startup has super armor just like DK punch, and boasts good knockback. While the spin does not have armor classification, it is very adept at blocking energy projectiles. Here I will use Rasen Shuriken to demonstrate the general timing for the armor, vulnerability, and spin. Here, you can see the startup blocks the shuriken, but DK still takes full damage. Here, you can see the startup has ended but DK has not yet initiated the spin, causing him to take the hit completely. And finally, we see that Rasen Shuriken is completely negated by the spin, resulting in neither damage nor knockback. Do not tell the devs. Here are demonstrations of some of the things Spinning Kong can deflect; this is pretty much just for shock and awe as it can consume almost anything. I would like to note, due to the projectile's awkward speed and precise timing, Kamehameha is difficult to armor using this tactic- punishing with DK punch would be a better option. Ledge Cancelling with Spinning Kong: show You may not know this, but DK has a really good ledge game and can ledge stall pretty effectively. By overlapping the startup of Spinning Kong with the a ledge in conjunction with momentum towards the stage, you can perform the initial, armored swing of Spinning Kong and then grab the ledge, completely skipping the lengthy spinning animation. Let that sink in. This has amazing applications when DK is forced to the ledge, this tactic makes him incredibly hard to punish in what should be a disadvantageous situation, as he is using a high knockback, super armored attack with no endlag, followed by ledge invulnerability. If you play DK, learn how to consistently execute this. Period. Depending on the timing of your Spinning Kong, you can use pretty much any amount of the initial swing before it becomes canceled, it will just take practice to become accustomed to. Here you can see a lot more of the swing, notice that the Spinning Kongs are pointed in the opposite direction of the stage. Reversing your USpec so that the backside faces your opponent is better, as the hitbox on the back end is much larger. Sliding and Fast Fall Canceling Spinning Kong: show Let's say for some reason, you can't take the ledge. Maybe you got hogged, maybe there's some form of denial, or maybe you just messed up your ledge cancel and are now spinning freely at the ledge. Stay Calm! You have options in aerial Spinning Kong that are not offered to grounded Spinning Kong. Aerial Spinning Kong has a different ending animation to the grounded version. This animation occurs immediately after the end of the hitbox and leads into helpless. However, this animation is treated the same as helpless, which means you can fast fall as soon as Spinning Kong's hitbox ends with virtually no landing lag. So essentially, the window to punish aerial Spinning Kong is only as wide as the time it takes for DK to touch the ground from fast fall. That makes for a window so small, that DK can even combo out of the minute amount of hitstun aerial Uspec's spin provides assuming he's low enough to the ground. That is not sped up or doctored at all. Scary stuff. Here is yet another interesting bit of tech for you- you can actually slide on the ground during that special pre-helpless animation. If DK is close enough to your opponent (so that his center of mass is attempting to occupy the same space as the other character), you can opt not to FF and instead go for what is essentially a sliding maneuver. You will have full horizontal control and can cover a great amount of distance at high speed. This might not have as many applications as an FF cancel, but on low percent enemies this is a great way to bait an attempted punish or just look incredibly cool. Application Here we'll look at a collection of hypotheticals and scenarios to learn how to deal with them. This way we can work towards applying this knowledge to the act of actually playing the game. I will also treat this as a general Q&A section- if somebody has a situation I overlooked or brings up a strategy that gives them trouble as DK, I will likely edit my suggestion into this subsection. So, the enemy and I have just started the match. The announcer has counted from 3 and we have been placed in our respective positions on the stage...What do I do? I can't give you all the answers; a lot of how you play is personal preference and matchup based, but here is what you should be asking yourself. "What is my opponent best at?" "What is my opponent worst at?" "What can I do that my opponent will have trouble dealing with?" "What can my opponent do that I will have trouble dealing with?" Can your opponent zone you out? Does s/he have decent recovery? What, if anything, can my opponent and I use in this stage to our respective advantages? This can be a lot of information to process, and I'm giving you more answers than questions, so here are your most concrete options for the very start of a fight. A.) Rush in and go for fast, short range aggression. This will likely be an attempt at an early chaingrab or SHFF'd nair juggles. With this decision, you will put your opponent on the defensive and hopefully rattle them mentally, or cause them to make bad decisions in order to evade you. B.) Move to control the center of the stage, post up for a more spacing-oriented start. This is a neutral decision, and shows more respect for your opponent's character, tools, or playstyle. Holding the middle of the stage is called stage advantage, and standing here will tell your opponent that you are the king of the hill, and you dare them to take it from you. C.) Charge DK punch. This is incredibly disrespectful, and will force your opponent to either charge, or allow you a free, fully charged DK Punch. They may make rash decisions in an attempt to cut your charge short, so this can be a decent option. That being said, you are giving up a lot of stage presence and put yourself on the defensive. This is an incredibly situational 'give a lot, gain a lot' style choice. It is also embarassing. So, I've grabbed my opponent...What do I do?Well first off, congratulations, you've just opened up a proverbial pandora's box-worth of options for inflicting pain or death on your opponent. That being said, you have a lot to consider before you find the throw and follow-up that's right for you. Luckily, I have a handy flowchart to help you in this process. It is incredibly well-designed and I am a professional. I'm having trouble finishing off my opponent, what are my options/what am i doing wrong?
If the enemy has reached 120% and they aren't dead, than it is likely that both you've made mistakes and your opponent has played well. First and foremost, you need to work on your edgeguarding game, as this is something DK excels at. With a backwards approach towards your opponent, you have the option of nair, bair, dair, sspec, or uspec. That's a lot of options, and I really don't want to make another flowchart. If the enemy and you are on a quick collision course, your choices are Nair and Uspec. Both come out incredibly fast and have good knockback if timed properly. If you are worried your opponent will airdodge, nair is quicker, safer, and allows for followups that you simply can't do after using Spinning Kong. Is your opponent at medium or higher percent? Spinning Kong's initial swing will send them to the blast zone, that I can guarantee you. Does the enemy have their second jump left? If they don't have their second jump, going for a dair or bair are solid options: they have better KO potential than nair and won't put you out of the edgeguarding game like Uspec, but are slower on startup which makes them avoidable. Or if you know they can only reach the ledge and not the stage itself, just edgehog them. Can I use fair to edgeguard? You can, but that's probably why your opponent is not dead yet. Fair is your slowest, most telegraphed option, and by attempting to edgeguard facing your opponent, you've removed bair from your options. These are both negatives. Try to get the hang of turning in the air with Dspec so that you can take advantage of bair more often when edgeguarding. Do I have my second jump left? Wall of pain that guy. You thought only jigglypuff could run somebody out of town? Think again. (The uspec does hit, and you can easily make it back on any stage with 4-5 height boosts on your uspec. This is a suprisingly reliable setup at low-mid percent) Along with edgeguarding, you probably haven't been finishing off your combos properly. Have you been using 1 uair too many in your juggles, allowing your opponent breathing room to DI back to the earth? Any combo you do needs to end by sending your opponent offstage. Whether that's the blastzone or just forcing them to recover, you are now in a much more advantageous position than you would have been by wracking up 12 more percent while risking them getting off scott-free. You may have been whiffing too many DK punches, or simply not using them at all. That's a real shame, and it's something that you should work on immediately, as a fully charged DK punch gives you a lot of 0-Death options. Maybe we will look at a few in an upcoming section? So if somehow your opponent does reach a high percent, just do whatever you can to convert to edgeguard. Bthrow, Ftilt, Bair, Nair, even a dashing attack. Don't go for anything risky like a smash attack to gimp them straight out- learn to rely on that great edgeguarding game you've been working so hard on! If none of these things are true, your opponent is probably Yoshi. He has a lot of very matchup-specific options that need to be looked at, and hopefully that sort of thing can be discussed in more detail at some point. I love playing DK but I am getting absolutely busted up by enemy combos/edgeguards...What do I do?
DK is a very big monkey, and a lot of characters can do abnormally long combos and chaingrabs because of this. It sucks, and I feel for you. You need to adapt, and if you're really serious about this thing you need to start researching your opponents. Put some hours in the lab, find some players that main the characters that give you the most trouble, and definitely lurk on the character discussion pages for more than just your main. Learn the most potent combos everyone on the roster can do against DK, and learn the DI and tech timing required to escape finishers/extensions/links like the back of your hand. Do everything you can to make these combos as short as possible and when you can retaliate. Heck, try playing some other characters and see what it's like in their shoes. It will become much easier to identify what sort of DI would prevent your combo and at what percents different setups can and can't be broken out of. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
As far as getting edgeguarded goes, this definitely lies more on a per-matchup basis. What is KOing you the most? If the enemy is spiking you from the top of Spinning Kong, try to mixup your approach by moving away from the stage a little or going higher to throw them off their groove. If the enemy is waiting on the stage for you to get just close enough for a good smacking, use your vertical movement options to your advantage. Hanging out low and nabbing the edge, or simply flying far above their heads are just as good if not better than trying to Spinning Kong into them offensively. Also, if you're not knocked too far away, don't forget that Sspec can stop your aerial momentum completely. This is a great way to throw your opponent's timing off and keep them guessing. If the enemy is chasing you for aggressive offstage edgeguaring, don't underestimate Spinning Kong. If you are expecting an aerial attack to come out, armor through it with the initial swing and fly home! Chances are you'll hit the opponent too! I am getting completely zoned by projectiles/long, disjointed hitboxes...What do I do?
These things are definitely DK's bane- he does not enjoy getting zoned and it is difficult to get up close with sword-wielders or ZSS' whip. His size just makes things worse, he's so much easier to hit with absolutely everything, and the effort required to get in on someone with a good projectile game is high.
For projectiles, first and foremost get the hang of DK's different armor techniques as well as the timing for powershielding. I would recommend practicing the latter on Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho first (as it is the easiest projectile to reflect by far), and working your way up to more common fodder such as Samus' Missiles and Fox's Blaster. After that, get the hang of moving quickly on staged platforms- fastfalling and dashing as soon as you land simply makes you that much better at getting into your opponent's comfort zone. Now that you're a fast monkey that can deal with the occasional projectile, you can play mindgames and find openings in your opponent's ranged offensive. If they are using their projectiles to camp (such as Megaman or Samus), make them feel uncomfortable with that decision. Start getting SHFF'd DK Punch charges. If you have a charged DK Punch ready, you really shouldnt be afraid of anything. Armoring with dash attack or reflecting one projectile should create the hole you need in their defense to allow you to either setup for a DK Punch or just armor through a predictable attack with DK Punch. Also don't underestimate your Spinning Kong's ability to eat through a lot of character's projectile games.
If they are using their projectiles as an approach tool (such as Mario or Pikachu), this can be a much more dire situation. Spinning Kong is a great tool for shutting down this form of approach, but will become predictable. I won't ask you to powershield every fireball. This style of play puts DK on the defensive, which is not where he would like to be at all. Get comfortable with blocking these types of projectiles with a SHFF'd nair or bair, as well as armoring them with a dash attack. Learn your options out of shield, because you'll probably be using it more than you're used to. Shield Grabs, SHFF'd Nairs, and your Uspec are all objectively great options when under shield pressure.
For long disjointed hitboxes (such as Marth or ZSS), your spacing and approach just has to be much tighter than you might be used to. You may very likely be playing a reactionary or punish-oriented game, which is not outside of DK's tool kit but it certainly isn't his favorite thing in the world. Filling empty spaces of time with SHFF'd DK Punch charges is recommended since you'll want to capitalize on a good read or enemy mistake with as much percentage as possible. Make a conscious effort to focus as much as you can on the enemy character instead of DK. This should increase your ability to react to their movements and attacks. And again, get to know your options out of shield, because you may take some unwelcome pressure that you'll need to learn how to deal with. If they are very comfortable with simply zoning you and controlling center stage, then mixing up your approach with heavy use of dash dancing and DK's collection of approach options is mandatory. If you keep them guessing, you will have a much higher chance of getting in their comfort zone.
If all of these things are true, your opponent is probably Link. He has a lot of very matchup-specific options that need to be looked at, and hopefully that sort of thing can be discussed in more detail at some point. Sot6P wrote: What are some common DK combos? Generally speaking, you want to be getting grabs or utilts, as they will lead to the meat of your damage output on combos for most of the cast (with chaingrabs and juggles, respectively). Moves that can lead into these reliably are nair, dspec, and grounded dair. That being said, tech chasing off any other number of moves (bair, dtilt, dash attack) or simply a raw grab can get the job done.
If you have DK Punch, its most reliable setups are Dthrow, Dspec, or Uair. Dair or Sspec also work on grounded targets, but far less efficiently than Dspec in my opinion.
As far as specifics, the combos I use the most are usually along these lines:
Nair -> Grab -> Uthrow -> Utilt -> Uair -> DK Punch/Uair Chains -> Bair/Fair/Usmash
Nair -> Grab -> Dthrow Chains -> DK Punch/Fthrow -> Bair/Fair/Reverse Uspec
Dair -> Grab -> Dthrow -> Utilt -> DK Punch/Fair
Fastfallers (I need to work on some good Fox-specific combos, that guy falls waaaaay fast).
Dspec/Dash Cancel Utilt -> Uair -> Grab -> Dthrow Chains -> Uthrow-> Uair -> DK Punch/Fair/Bair
Nair -> Dash Cancel Dtilt -> Dspec (Tech Chased)/Jab Reset -> DK Punch/Grab -> Uthrow -> Dsmash
Floaties (These are somewhat similar to your normal combos, just without chains as they're much easier to DI. That being said, quite a few floaties have the added advantage of comboing out of Dtilt and Bair (ankle range and closer) at low-mid%)
Dtilt/Bair -> Grab -> Uthrow -> Usmash
Dspec -> Uair -> DK Punch/Uair -> Fair/Usmash
Jab & Uppercut -> Grab -> Dthrow -> DK Punch/Dsmash -> DK Punch/Fair Execution This section will have a youtube video in it. Try to do these things. 1.) I apologize for the low quality of pretty much everything here. I'm treating the gifs as 'placeholders' until i can find a more permanent, higher quality solution. I am also terrible at forums. I am also terrible at making videos. I am also terrible at Jigglypuff. 2.) I would absolutely love to get my hands on some frame data. I am collectively winking at everyone. 3.) If you find a grammatical, spelling, or stylistic error, please PM me so I can edit that. The DK community discussion page is clearly not the place for it but at the same time I want to make this as coherent as possible. 4.) I mention a couple of times that I would love to have matchup-specific discussions. As it stands, the single continuous thread encompassing all of DK (or any other character for that matter) really can't support that sort of thing. At the same time, demand for this is likely far too low, and the community is likely far too small to make it a reality. 5.) If you have any disagreements or complaints, obviously you should voice them. This is a discussion and my word is not law. If you have any questions, you should also voice them. I want to talk about DK so badly he's so cool you guys for real please play DK. 6.) Please try not to quote this entire guide if you are responding to it: it floods the forum page and if I edit the guide in the future the version quoted will be outdated. Thanks for your cooperation. 7.) Shoutouts to all feedback, you guys/girls know who you are
Last edited by _ & on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Yellokirbyguy
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:54 am Posts: 291 Location: Australia Country:
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MGN Username: Yellowkirbyguy
Currently Playing: Super Smash bros 3ds.
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| | | | _ & wrote: Donkey Kong: A Comprehensive Guide In this post, I will be breaking down everything from his moveset applications to advanced techniques. If you main DK, want to learn DK, or simply want to improve your matchup against him, you just might learn a thing or two here. DK is a combo-centric aggressive brawler with an array of close to midrange tools to keep opponents under constant pressure. He excels at finishing his opponents early, punishing good reads or bad tech, and boasts above average recovery. On the downside, he lacks long range and projectile options, is rather susceptible to zoning, and is very large, allowing enemies to link combos that they may not be able to on other members of the roster. This puts DK in a pseudo glass cannon position, as both he and his enemy can be very adept at putting out great deals of % in a single combo. If you're looking to play DK, you are looking to succeed based on your own technical skill and ability to read your opponent by punishing their weaknesses and bad decisions with swift death. The Moveset These are DK's ground attacks- jabs, tilts, and the like. You'll find DK has a great combination of knockback, speed, and range in these moves. None of these attacks are without their uses and you should be comfortable with all of their properties. Jab (Attack)[ Image ] A quick, shortrange attack. By pressing attack twice in succession, the punch will be followed up by an uppercut. This attack has low knockback, but is relatively safe. The uppercut knocks upwards, making this a solid combo starter or extension, especially at low to medium percent. This move is a good, noncomittal choice in the ground game and is a decent mixup if you start to getting too comfortable with your other options, especially grab. If the enemy enjoys spotdodging, then the second hit will connect after the first whiffs. If the enemy enjoys rolling, the first hit has very little endlag and will allow you to convert to punish with relative ease. If the enemy enjoys shielding, keep in mind that the uppercut is pretty punishable on shield, so do not follow up with the chain unless you expect them to lower shield after the first jab. If the enemy misses a ground tech, the initial jab is weak enough to jab reset pretty much anyone ever, allowing for guaranteed punish or free DK punches. (jiggly at ~196%) Ftilt (Right/Left held down + Attack) [ Image ] This is DK's poking tool- it has great range and moderate endlag. If your opponent is playing a spacing game against you, this is definitely going to be one of your options. Because this move comes out quickly and has such good range, it is a decent (though not your best) option for parrying physical attacks and projectiles, stuffing approaches, and punishing bad spacing. Despite these positive attributes, it's not an incredibly integral part of DK's game as the horizontal knockback in combination with the high chance that you are using this attack on an already distanced target will likely prevent you from following it up with anything. Fun Fact: The end of the attack does have a hitbox slightly above DK's head, which increases its potential value for stuffing short hop approaches. [ Image ] Dtilt (Down held down + Attack)[ Image ] Yet again we have a decently ranged, relatively safe ground move. It's faster than Ftilt, but loses out on some range and knockback. Because of these features in combination with a lower trajectory, this move is more useful for scooping a missed ground tech and edgeguarding, though it's not your best option for either. In general this should be used as a safer option to ftilt if the enemy is in range, and is a really good tool for safely dealing with players who overuse dash attacks, as depending on the dash attack it will either counter or stop them in their tracks. Utilt (Up held down + Attack)[ Image ] This is a very potent member of DK's arsenal. It covers a good arc and has moderate vertical knockback. If you're looking to take a low percent enemy into some good-old-fasioned juggling, especially in platformed stages, this will likely be in the mix. That being said, utilt is not great outside of juggling, as it covers a small distance in any one direction and can be easily punished on whiff. It's also not a great KO move- the knockback is too high for juggles at mid percent but too low to KO anywhere but far beyond 100. Dash Attack (Attack while Dashing)[ Image ] DK's dash attack is a valuable tool, it has light armor and can be followed up at mid percent. Use this as an approach mixup, a tech chase option, or to punish a read. Due to its armor properties this attack can be useful for dealing with some characters' pesky projectiles and zoning tools (such as Mario's fireballs, Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, Chibi Robo's Chibi-Blaster, Lloyd's Demon Fang/Double Demon Fang, and level 1-3 of Mega Man's Mega Buster.) Zero Suit Samus' Paralyzer will stun regardless, but will not knockback if the dash attack is timed properly. Do not use this move frugally or as your primary approach option, as the hitbox ends much earlier than the attack animation may lead you to believe. It is very punishable! DK's aerials are the core of his game, in here you can find combo extenders, juggling moves, zoning tools, and finishers. These are the attacks that will see the most use in an average fight, so know them like the back of your hand! Nair (Attack while in the air)[ Image ] DK's Nair is his bread & butter, it's a very safe, very potent offensive tool that has almost no startup or landing lag. Whether you're fishing for hits in aerial footsies, facing shield pressure, or attempting to create some pressure of your own, a SHFF'd nair is likely your best choice. The initial hitbox has greater knockback and damage than the rest of the attack, so change your attack timing depending on what you want from your nair. Fair (Attack + Direction currently facing while in the air)[ Image ] This is a heavy-hitting, multi-purpose aerial attack with either large horizontal knockback or spike depending on your timing and spacing. Due to the move's noticeable startup time and landing lag, it should not be thrown around carelessly and is best used as a situational combo-ender or for off-stage edgeguarding. To spike your opponent, the shine at the end of the animation has to connect with the opponent, making this feature incredibly precise and unreliable. Fun Fact: if timed properly a SH'd fair can connect in a small arc over your head, allowing it to be used as an anti-air option or to simply convert a combo into edgeguarding much sooner against characters with very gimpable recoveries. [ Image ] Bair (Attack + opposite Direction currently facing while in air)[ Image ] Yet another very potent option in DK's air game. While it has longer startup time than nair, it has better reach and good knockback. As this is a much better option than fair in a neutral spacing/footsies game, you will often have your back to your enemy so that you have the option of SHFF'd nair, bair, or uair. This move is best used to convert to edgeguard or to space and mixup enemies that are getting comfortable with punishing your nair (especially with shield grabs, as a maxrange bair will leave you out of the grab range of everyone without a tether.) If the enemy has longer range on their normals (such as sword-wielders or ZSS), this will likely be your safest offensive option from the air. This is also one of DK's best choices for off-stage edgeguarding. Dair (Attack + Down while in air)[ Image ] Dair is a high knockback meteor with moderate startup and end/landing lag. This can be used to start a combo on a grounded target, or to gimp a predictable recovery. Like the fair, this is pretty punishable and shouldn't be used casually- if you get a good read this is a decent punish tool as it leads into any number of moves effortlessly. You probably won't be using this move often, but don't underestimate its situational utility. You can get some really low percent KOs on careless players with a simple Dair into DK punch! Uair (Attack + Up while in air)[ Image ] This is DK's #1 juggling tool- it has the perfect amount of vertical knockback and great speed. Get a low percent enemy in the air and you can juggle them mercilessly with these things- this method is incredibly potent on platformed stages like Yoshi's Story or Battlefield where you can continue your juggle to even greater heights. The quick animation also allows it to chase DI really effectively, giving you a lot of options to end your chain. If you are in a stage with a shoter blastzone or have a lighter opponent, try finishing with a Usmash. If you are against an enemy with a gimpable recovery, send them offstage as soon as possible. If you have a DK Punch, finish with a DK punch. If none of these apply, just wrack up as much % as you can safely and send them offstage. DK's Smash attacks are relatively fast, high knockback moves that will allow you to convert to edgeguard or straight up KO opponents. If you want raw damage, look no further. Fsmash (Attack + Left/Right Simultaneously)[ Image ] DK's Fsmash is a potent KO option. It has good range, a lot of knockback, and is surprisingly fast. If your enemy is at medium-high percent, this is probably the best and lowest-risk way to send them out on a read. If the enemy makes a poorly-spaced recovery attempt, take him out with fsmash. If the enemy misses tech or simply leaves themselves open for a hit, this will send them offstage without the need for anything technical or combo-based. Clean and simple. Dsmash (Attack + Down Simultaneously)[ Image ] Like many Dsmashes, this covers both sides of your character and is a good option when you're expecting the enemy may try to roll to your other side. It has moderate endlag but covers a good distance and has diagonal knockback that sends the enemy upwards and towards DK. This should not be ruled out as a low percent combo option as it can add a lot of percent while keeping your combo going, reducing the need for large air chains and having to deal with as much enemy DI. If the enemy loves to roll, try this as an offensive mixup. Keep in mind that this attack does not connect at the start of the animation (when DK's hands are at the apex of their swing). It will, however, connect shortly afterwards when the hands are traveling down (at around DK's ear-level). Usmash (Attack + Up Simultaneously)[ Image ] This is yet another fast, strong attack with decent range. It has strong upwards knockback and can KO lighter members of the cast from 65-75%. A pretty straightforward move. If the enemy is on a platform above you, this is an option (though likely not as good as a utilt or uair). Keep in mind that this attack does not connect on the ground during any of the startup, the hitbox is strictly above DK. Unless your opponent is DK and you are pretty much occupying the same space, this attack will not hit a grounded or even horizontally approaching target. DK's specials are full of intricacies and are an integral part of his game in high-level play. Intelligent and technical application of these moves can make or break your DK's effectiveness. NSpec (Special)[ Image ] (Charge) [ Image ] (Punch) This move is absolutely incredible. After ~2.5 seconds of charge time, you will have a ready-to-rumble, incredibly fast, incredibly safe punch with ridiculous knockback. The charge can be stored and gained through multiple charge attempts, and there are some interesting tricks around this that we will look at in more detail under the advanced techniques section. Pressing the button a second time while charging will use the punch prematurely, but it still gets power from the amount of time it has charged up to this point. Do not underestimate a half-baked DK Punch. A large portion of DK's game will revolve around combos that end with this move. If you have a charge ready, there are a myriad of 0-Death setups for DK that we will look at in the execution section. SSpec (Special + Right/Left)[ Image ] This is a short range headbutt that has different properties depending on your enemy's position. The attack will meteor an aerial target, while it will bury a grounded target in dirt, allowing for free hits (but no grabs). Though this is not a great offensive tool to use in the neutral game, it does have some utility that is worth looking at. If used in the air, it will stall DK in his current position. Though you will forfeit your horizontal momentum, this can be used as a recovery mixup to bait the opponent's edgeguard. If the enemy missed a ground tech and is laying on the floor, this move will bury them. If their percent is high enough that a DK Punch or Fsmash will KO them, consider this as another option to the jab reset. Dspec (Special + Down)[ Image ] This is DK's most underrated move, he slams the ground creating a shockwave that knocks enemies upwards and towards DK in a predictable arc. This attack induces an extroadinary amount of hitstun, allowing it to chain easily and setup virtually anything. If you hold down the special button/key DK will slam the ground repeatedly, but it is best to simply end the attack after one slam. This makes the move relatively safe as it is incredibly fast and applies greater-than-average shieldstun. The shockwave can also destroy a lot of weak projectiles, as well as PK fire. This method may be better than DK's other options (such as Dash attack & Uspec) because it's situationally safer and prevents DK from taking any damage. If the enemy misses a ground tech, this is often what i'll use to punish because it's so easy to combo off of. Keep in mind this attack only collides with grounded targets, if the enemy approaches with a lot of SH'd aerials then you could get yourself in trouble with this attack. USpec (Special + Up)[ Image ] PSA: By pressing the Special button/key from the air while this move is active, you will move up in exchange for some horizontal distance. The more you press, the higher you will go. This move is really good. It has so many technical applications and boasts some serious recovery range. The startup has great knockback and super armor, the spin blocks all sorts of projectiles and has really good priority. The last hit on the grounded version has greater knockback than the rest, allowing you to setup a combo at certain percents or put your opponent on a platform to prevent punishing. This move is incredible for both off-stage edgeguarding and dealing with shield pressure. Punishing this attack during the animation requires some very specific tools and situations that some members of the roster just won't have access to, making this move a lot safer than you would think, and in combination with some advanced tech this can be not only one of DK's safest moves, but allow for some hilarious mixups and opens up all sorts of punish opportunities. We will see a lot more of Uspec in the advanced technique and application sections. DK has a very potent grab game that allows him to open up all sorts of opportunities. He has chain grabs, combo setups, and the notorious cargo suicide! As a DK player, you will be grabbing a lot, so it's very important to know the ins-and-outs of his different options out of grab. Fthrow (Grab -> Direction currently facing)[ Image ] Also known as Cargo Throw, DK will put the enemy on his back allowing movement in either direction as well as jumping. This allows you to position the enemy somewhere more favorable before initiating the throw, such as closer to the edge or around platforms for a more effective follow-up. If the enemy is at mid percent and you want to convert to edgeguard, use this if you are facing the wrong way for a bair. If the enemy has poor vertical recovery and is at mid-high percent, walking off the edge with them will result in both of your deaths (the input required to break out of the grab is directly related to their percentage, so do not use this on a low percent target PERIOD). If the enemy is heavy or large, this can be a chain throw. (up to 56% on fox, 48% on DK, DI-able on both though it's much easier for DK) If the enemy is in a poor position or you want a platform to combo (on smashville or ToS, for instance), this throw will allow you to get to where you need to be. Some stages, such as Final Destination, will allow for stage spiking. Turn around, jump off the edge, and throw the enemy into the diagonal belly of the stage. At high enough percents this will net a KO, and with enough mashing you will be able to recover. Bthrow (Grab -> opposite Direction currently facing)[ Image ] This is your strongest throw. While not a great KO move on its own, this will be your best choice if you just want to get the opponent offstage. Dthrow (Grab -> Down) & Uthrow (Grab -> Up)[ Image ] [ Image ] I'm lumping these two throws together because they have very similar roles and interact with each other very closely in DK's chaingrab and setup game. They are both chainable from low to mid percent, but the Dthrow has lower knockback and moves slightly away from DK, whereas Uthrow simply goes above DK's head. Their minor diffences allow for versatility and setups at a greater percentage range than just 1 throw would allow, and makes it that much harder for your opponent to DI whatever you have to *ahem* throw at them. In general, Uthrow is better for combos and Dthrow is better for chaingrabs, but due to the nature of the game with varying weights, DI, and percentages, nothing is constant. Throws, especially these 2, will be looked at more in-depth in the application section. Advanced Techniques Here you will find some ways to use moves that you might not have known about. Do you run away from your opponent and spam roll to try and charge punch? Do you think Spinning Kong is bad? Read this. Safe and Discrete Charge with DK Punch Cancel: show DK's Punch takes about 2.5 seconds to charge fully, and seeing as it is his best KO move by far, it will be important to find the time and space to get charge time. Luckily, the charge can be initiated in the air and canceled with an airdodge. By SHFF'ing in this manner, it can become very easy to maintain acceptable levels or even finish a charge in the heat of battle. Your opponent may be very surprised to find that you have a charged DK punch in your arsenal! [ Image ] If you send an opponent offstage, do this a couple of times while converting to edgeguard. If there's ever any distance between you or an opponent, try inserting this into your approach to fill the dead space that would be spent dashing, you can even half jump so that the airdodge can be used to avoid projectiles. If you are ever in the air without intent to use an aerial, such as chasing a juggled target onto a platform or simply trying to land on a platform, use this. If you are sent vertically from a juggle or usmash and the enemy is attempting to follow up, the helplessness system in SSF2 prevents you from doing an airdodge until you initiate another action (such as a jump or aerial attack), but DK can immediately cancel a DK charge to airdodge on command, making him a hard target to combo beyond the range of anything guaranteed by hitstun. Also: The actual punching animation of DK Punch can be cancelled at any time with an airdodge- this can be used to prevent punishment on a whiffed punch, or to simply eliminate landing lag on a SH'd DK Punch. Punishing Reads with DK Punch: show [ Image ] DK Punch has super armor for the entire animation. The charge level of the punch does not matter, and as long as the attacks do not parry, you can land a DK punch while suffering the percentage of the enemy attack but not the knockback. To avoid parries on certain attacks, such as falcon punch or stronger fsmashes, make sure you time your DK Punch so that you are hit during the startup and not the actual punch. This can be a great way to turn around what your opponent thought was an advantageous position, and in combination with aerial punch cancels, the skies can be very unsafe for anyone trying to poach DK. If the enemy is attempting an Fsmash or other highly-telegraphed move and you have a 1/2 charge or greater, approach with a SH'd DK punch and cancel as soon as it lands. I guarantee you they will never do that again. If the enemy is attempting to end a combo while you are out of hitstun, or simply don't react well enough to your DI and miss a link, consider sending them off with a smile with the help of DK punch. Blocking and Parrying with Spinning Kong: show This is one of the many incredibly handy uses of DK's Uspec. The startup has super armor just like DK punch, and boasts good knockback. While the spin does not have armor classification, it is very adept at blocking energy projectiles. Here I will use Rasen Shuriken to demonstrate the general timing for the armor, vulnerability, and spin. [ Image ] Here, you can see the startup blocks the shuriken, but DK still takes full damage. [ Image ] Here, you can see the startup has ended but DK has not yet initiated the spin, causing him to take the hit completely. [ Image ] And finally, we see that Rasen Shuriken is completely negated by the spin, resulting in neither damage nor knockback. Do not tell the devs. Here are demonstrations of some of the things Spinning Kong can deflect; this is pretty much just for shock and awe and it can consume almost anything. [ Image ][ Image ][ Image ][ Image ][ Image ][ Image ] I would like to note, due to the projectile's awkward speed and precise timing, Kamehameha is difficult to armor using this tactic- punishing with DK punch would be a better option. Ledge Cancelling with Spinning Kong: show You may not know this, but DK has a really good ledge game and can ledge stall pretty effectively. By overlapping the startup of Spinning Kong with the a ledge in conjunction with momentum towards the stage, you can perform the initial, armored swing of Spinning Kong and then grab the ledge, completely skipping the lengthy spinning animation. Let that sink in. This has amazing applications when DK is forced to the ledge, this tactic makes him incredibly hard to punish in what should be a disadvantageous situation, as he is using a high knockback, super armored attack with no endlag, followed by ledge invulnerability. If you play DK, learn how to consistently execute this. Period. [ Image ] Depending on the timing of your Spinning Kong, you can use pretty much any amount of the initial swing before it becomes canceled, it will just take practice to become accustomed to. [ Image ] Here you can see a lot more of the swing, notice that the Spinning Kongs are pointed in the opposite direction of the stage. Reversing your USpec so that the backside faces your opponent is better, as the hitbox on the back end is much larger. Sliding and Fast Fall Canceling Spinning Kong: show Let's say for some reason, you can't take the ledge. Maybe you got hogged, maybe there's some form of denial, or maybe you just messed up your ledge cancel and are now spinning freely at the ledge. Stay Calm! You have options in aerial Spinning Kong that are not offered to grounded Spinning Kong. Aerial Spinning Kong has a different ending animation to the grounded version. This animation occurs immediately after the end of the hitbox and leads into helpless. [ Image ] However, this animation is treated the same as helpless, which means you can fast fall as soon as Spinning Kong's hitbox ends with virtually no landing lag. So essentially, the window to punish aerial Spinning Kong is only as wide as the time it takes for DK to touch the ground from fast fall. That makes for a window so small, that DK can even combo out of the minute amount of hitstun aerial Uspec's spin provides assuming he's low enough to the ground. [ Image ] That is not sped up or doctored at all. Scary stuff. Here is yet another interesting bit of tech for you- you can actually slide on the ground during that special pre-helpless animation. If DK is close enough to your opponent (so that his center of mass is attempting to occupy the same space as the other character), you can opt not to FF and instead go for what is essentially a sliding maneuver. You will have full horizontal control and can cover a great amount of distance at high speed. [ Image ] This might not have as many applications as an FF cancel, but on low percent enemies this is a great way to bait an attempted punish or just look incredibly cool. Application Here we'll look at a collection of hypotheticals and scenarios to learn how to deal with them. This way we can work towards applying this knowledge to the act of actually playing the game. I will also treat this as a general Q&A section- if somebody has a situation I overlooked or brings up a strategy that gives them trouble as DK, I will likely edit my suggestion into this subsection. So, the enemy and I have just started the match. The announcer has counted from 3 and we have been placed in our respective positions on the stage...What do I do? I can't give you all the answers; a lot of how you play is personal preference and matchup based, but here is what you should be asking yourself. "What is my opponent best at?" "What is my opponent worst at?" "What can I do that my opponent will have trouble dealing with?" "What can my opponent do that I will have trouble dealing with?" Can your opponent zone you out? Does s/he have decent recovery? What, if anything, can my opponent and I use in this stage to our respective advantages? This can be a lot of information to process, and I'm giving you more answers than questions, so here are your most concrete options for the very start of a fight. A.) Rush in and go for fast, short range aggression. This will likely be an attempt at an early chaingrab or SHFF'd nair juggles. With this decision, you will put your opponent on the defensive and hopefully rattle them mentally, or cause them to make bad decisions in order to evade you. B.) Move to control the center of the stage, post up for a more spacing-oriented start. This is a neutral decision, and shows more respect for your opponent's character, tools, or playstyle. Holding the middle of the stage is called stage advantage, and standing here will tell your opponent that you are the king of the hill, and you dare them to take it from you. C.) Charge DK punch. This is incredibly disrespectful, and will force your opponent to either charge, or allow you a free, fully charged DK Punch. They may make rash decisions in an attempt to cut your charge short, so this can be a decent option. That being said, you are giving up a lot of stage presence and put yourself on the defensive. This is an incredibly situational 'give a lot, gain a lot' style choice. It is also embarassing. So, I've grabbed my opponent...What do I do?Well first off, congratulations, you've just opened up a proverbial pandora's box-worth of options for inflicting pain or death on your opponent. That being said, you have a lot to consider before you find the throw and follow-up that's right for you. Luckily, I have a handy flowchart to help you in this process. It is incredibly well-designed and I am a professional. [ Image ] I'm having trouble finishing off my opponent, what are my options/what am i doing wrong?
If the enemy has reached 120% and they aren't dead, than it is likely that both you've made mistakes and your opponent has played well. First and foremost, you need to work on your edgeguarding game, as this is something DK excels at. With a backwards approach towards your opponent, you have the option of nair, bair, dair, sspec, or uspec. That's a lot of options, and I really don't want to make another flowchart. If the enemy and you are on a quick collision course, your choices are Nair and Uspec. Both come out incredibly fast and have good knockback if timed properly. If you are worried your opponent will airdodge, nair is quicker, safer, and allows for followups that you simply can't do after using Spinning Kong. Is your opponent at medium or higher percent? Spinning Kong's initial swing will send them to the blast zone, that I can guarantee you. Does the enemy have their second jump left? If they don't have their second jump, going for a dair or bair are solid options: they have better KO potential than nair and won't put you out of the edgeguarding game like Uspec, but are slower on startup which makes them avoidable. Or if you know they can only reach the ledge and not the stage itself, just edgehog them. Can I use fair to edgeguard? You can, but that's probably why your opponent is not dead yet. Fair is your slowest, most telegraphed option, and by attempting to edgeguard facing your opponent, you've removed bair from your options. These are both negatives. Do I have my second jump left? Wall of pain that guy. You thought only jigglypuff could run somebody out of town? Think again. [ Image ] (The uspec does hit, and you can easily make it back on any stage with 4-5 height boosts on your uspec. This is a suprisingly reliable setup at low-mid percent) Along with edgeguarding, you probably haven't been finishing off your combos properly. Have you been using 1 uair too many in your juggles, allowing your opponent breathing room to DI back to the earth? Any combo you do needs to end by sending your opponent offstage. Whether that's the blastzone or just forcing them to recover, you are now in a much more advantageous position than you would have been by wracking up 12 more percent while risking them getting off scott-free. You may have been whiffing too many DK punches, or simply not using them at all. That's a real shame, and it's something that you should work on immediately, as a fully charged DK punch gives you a lot of 0-Death options. Maybe we will look at a few in an upcoming section? So if somehow your opponent does reach a high percent, just do whatever you can to convert to edgeguard. Bthrow, Ftilt, Bair, Nair, even a dashing attack. Don't go for anything risky like a smash attack to gimp them straight out- learn to rely on that great edgeguarding game you've been working so hard on! If none of these things are true, your opponent is probably Yoshi. He has a lot of very matchup-specific options that need to be looked at, and hopefully that sort of thing can be discussed in more detail at some point. I love playing DK but I am getting absolutely busted up by enemy combos/edgeguards...What do I do?
DK is a very big monkey, and a lot of characters can do abnormally long combos and chaingrabs because of this. It sucks, and I feel for you. You need to adapt, and if you're really serious about this thing you need to start researching your opponents. Put some hours in the lab, find some players that main the characters that give you the most trouble, and definitely lurk on the character discussion pages for more than just your main. Learn the most potent combos everyone on the roster can do against DK, and learn the DI and tech timing required to escape finishers/extensions/links like the back of your hand. Do everything you can to make these combos as short as possible and when you can retaliate. Heck, try playing some other characters and see what it's like in their shoes. It will become much easier to identify what sort of DI would prevent your combo and at what percents different setups can and can't be broken out of. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
As far as getting edgeguarded goes, this definitely lies more on a per-matchup basis. What is KOing you the most? If the enemy is spiking you from the top of Spinning Kong, try to mixup your approach by moving away from the stage a little or going higher to throw them off their groove. If the enemy is waiting on the stage for you to get just close enough for a good smacking, use your vertical movement options to your advantage. Hanging out low and nabbing the edge, or simply flying far above their heads are just as good if not better than trying to Spinning Kong into them offensively. Also, if you're not knocked too far away, don't forget that Sspec can stop your aerial momentum completely. This is a great way to throw your opponent's timing off and keep them guessing. If the enemy is chasing you for aggressive offstage edgeguaring, don't underestimate Spinning Kong. If you are expecting an aerial attack to come out, armor through it with the initial swing and fly home! Chances are you'll hit the opponent too! I am getting completely zoned by projectiles/long, disjointed hitboxes...What do I do?
These things are definitely DK's bane- he does not enjoy getting zoned and it is difficult to get up close with sword-wielders or ZSS' whip. His size just makes things worse, he's so much easier to hit with absolutely everything, and the effort required to get in on someone with a good projectile game is high.
For projectiles, first and foremost get the hang of DK's different armor techniques as well as the timing for powershielding. I would recommend practicing the latter on Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho first (as it is the easiest projectile to reflect by far), and working your way up to more common fodder such as Samus' Missiles and Fox's Blaster. After that, get the hang of moving quickly on staged platforms- fastfalling and dashing as soon as you land simply makes you that much better at getting into your opponent's comfort zone. Now that you're a fast monkey that can deal with the occasional projectile, you can play mindgames and find openings in your opponent's ranged offensive. If they are using their projectiles to camp (such as Megaman or Samus), make them feel uncomfortable with that decision. Start getting SHFF'd DK Punch charges. If you have a charged DK Punch ready, you really shouldnt be afraid of anything. Armoring with dash attack or reflecting one projectile should create the hole you need in their defense to allow you to either setup for a DK Punch or just armor through a predictable attack with DK Punch. Also don't underestimate your Spinning Kong's ability to eat through a lot of character's projectile games.
If they are using their projectiles as an approach tool (such as Mario or Pikachu), this can be a much more dire situation. Spinning Kong is a great tool for shutting down this form of approach, but will become predictable. I won't ask you to powershield every fireball. This style of play puts DK on the defensive, which is not where he would like to be at all. Get comfortable with blocking these types of projectiles with a SHFF'd nair or bair, as well as armoring them with a dash attack. Learn your options out of shield, because you'll probably be using it more than you're used to. Shield Grabs, SHFF'd Nairs, and your Uspec are all objectively great options when under shield pressure.
For long disjointed hitboxes (such as Marth or ZSS), your spacing and approach just has to be much tighter than you might be used to. You may very likely be playing a reactionary or punish-oriented game, which is not outside of DK's tool kit but it certainly isn't his favorite thing in the world. Filling empty spaces of time with SHFF'd DK Punch charges is recommended since you'll want to capitalize on a good read or enemy mistake with as much percentage as possible. Make a conscious effort to focus as much as you can on the enemy character instead of DK. This should increase your ability to react to their movements and attacks. And again, get to know your options out of shield, because you may take some unwelcome pressure that you'll need to learn how to deal with. If they are very comfortable with simply zoning you and controlling center stage, then mixing up your approach with heavy use of dash dancing and DK's collection of approach options is mandatory. If you keep them guessing, you will have a much higher chance of getting in their comfort zone.
If all of these things are true, your opponent is probably Link. He has a lot of very matchup-specific options that need to be looked at, and hopefully that sort of thing can be discussed in more detail at some point. Execution This section will have a youtube video in it. Try to do these things. 1.) I apologize for the low quality of pretty much everything here. I'm treating the gifs as 'placeholders' until i can find a more permanent, higher quality solution. I am also terrible at forums. I am also terrible at making videos. I am also terrible at Jigglypuff. 2.) I would absolutely love to get my hands on some frame data. I am collectively winking at everyone. 3.) If you find a grammatical, spelling, or stylistic error, please PM me so I can edit that. The DK community discussion page is clearly not the place for it but at the same time I want to make this as coherent as possible. 4.) I mention a couple of times that I would love to have matchup-specific discussions. As it stands, the single continuous thread encompassing all of DK (or any other character for that matter) really can't support that sort of thing. At the same time, demand for this is likely far too low, and the community is likely far too small to make it a reality. 5.) If you have any disagreements or complaints, obviously you should voice them. This is a discussion and my word is not law. If you have any questions, you should also voice them. I want to talk about DK so badly he's so cool you guys for real please play DK. | | | | |
You forgot Ledge canceling with Spinning Kong from the ground (Probably could use it to prevent ending lag in case you didn't land that first hit) I would also say that N-air or B-air would be the go-to parry for Non-energy based projectiles, and D-spec if you can time it but this is my opinion. Also, there's a bit of utility in DK's D-spec in the air. You can use it to change direction without even using an attack. It could be used for a surprise B-air when the foe tries to read an attack. Or even just to show off. Apart from that i'm pretty happy with this guide, it explains the basic's of DK's overall strategy and then some with AT's and what not.
_________________Image broke on me...School's getting a bit more important, so i'll be on less frequently due to this. 3ds Friend code~ 4210-4750-3059 Pm me if you've added me so i can add ya back please
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Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:31 am |
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Warau
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:36 am Posts: 50 Country:
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_________________Loses are only counted if you surrender. My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM3v4SbmRNkaS892fEgiEpA
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Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:07 am |
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loud4332
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:36 am Posts: 3 Country:
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| | | | Yellokirbyguy wrote: | | | | _ & wrote: Donkey Kong: A Comprehensive Guide In this post, I will be breaking down everything from his moveset applications to advanced techniques. If you main DK, want to learn DK, or simply want to improve your matchup against him, you just might learn a thing or two here. DK is a combo-centric aggressive brawler with an array of close to midrange tools to keep opponents under constant pressure. He excels at finishing his opponents early, punishing good reads or bad tech, and boasts above average recovery. On the downside, he lacks long range and projectile options, is rather susceptible to zoning, and is very large, allowing enemies to link combos that they may not be able to on other members of the roster. This puts DK in a pseudo glass cannon position, as both he and his enemy can be very adept at putting out great deals of % in a single combo. If you're looking to play DK, you are looking to succeed based on your own technical skill and ability to read your opponent by punishing their weaknesses and bad decisions with swift death. The Moveset These are DK's ground attacks- jabs, tilts, and the like. You'll find DK has a great combination of knockback, speed, and range in these moves. None of these attacks are without their uses and you should be comfortable with all of their properties. Jab (Attack)[ Image ] A quick, shortrange attack. By pressing attack twice in succession, the punch will be followed up by an uppercut. This attack has low knockback, but is relatively safe. The uppercut knocks upwards, making this a solid combo starter or extension, especially at low to medium percent. This move is a good, noncomittal choice in the ground game and is a decent mixup if you start to getting too comfortable with your other options, especially grab. If the enemy enjoys spotdodging, then the second hit will connect after the first whiffs. If the enemy enjoys rolling, the first hit has very little endlag and will allow you to convert to punish with relative ease. If the enemy enjoys shielding, keep in mind that the uppercut is pretty punishable on shield, so do not follow up with the chain unless you expect them to lower shield after the first jab. If the enemy misses a ground tech, the initial jab is weak enough to jab reset pretty much anyone ever, allowing for guaranteed punish or free DK punches. (jiggly at ~196%) Ftilt (Right/Left held down + Attack) [ Image ] This is DK's poking tool- it has great range and moderate endlag. If your opponent is playing a spacing game against you, this is definitely going to be one of your options. Because this move comes out quickly and has such good range, it is a decent (though not your best) option for parrying physical attacks and projectiles, stuffing approaches, and punishing bad spacing. Despite these positive attributes, it's not an incredibly integral part of DK's game as the horizontal knockback in combination with the high chance that you are using this attack on an already distanced target will likely prevent you from following it up with anything. Fun Fact: The end of the attack does have a hitbox slightly above DK's head, which increases its potential value for stuffing short hop approaches. [ Image ] Dtilt (Down held down + Attack)[ Image ] Yet again we have a decently ranged, relatively safe ground move. It's faster than Ftilt, but loses out on some range and knockback. Because of these features in combination with a lower trajectory, this move is more useful for scooping a missed ground tech and edgeguarding, though it's not your best option for either. In general this should be used as a safer option to ftilt if the enemy is in range, and is a really good tool for safely dealing with players who overuse dash attacks, as depending on the dash attack it will either counter or stop them in their tracks. Utilt (Up held down + Attack)[ Image ] This is a very potent member of DK's arsenal. It covers a good arc and has moderate vertical knockback. If you're looking to take a low percent enemy into some good-old-fasioned juggling, especially in platformed stages, this will likely be in the mix. That being said, utilt is not great outside of juggling, as it covers a small distance in any one direction and can be easily punished on whiff. It's also not a great KO move- the knockback is too high for juggles at mid percent but too low to KO anywhere but far beyond 100. Dash Attack (Attack while Dashing)[ Image ] DK's dash attack is a valuable tool, it has light armor and can be followed up at mid percent. Use this as an approach mixup, a tech chase option, or to punish a read. Due to its armor properties this attack can be useful for dealing with some characters' pesky projectiles and zoning tools (such as Mario's fireballs, Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, Chibi Robo's Chibi-Blaster, Lloyd's Demon Fang/Double Demon Fang, and level 1-3 of Mega Man's Mega Buster.) Zero Suit Samus' Paralyzer will stun regardless, but will not knockback if the dash attack is timed properly. Do not use this move frugally or as your primary approach option, as the hitbox ends much earlier than the attack animation may lead you to believe. It is very punishable! DK's aerials are the core of his game, in here you can find combo extenders, juggling moves, zoning tools, and finishers. These are the attacks that will see the most use in an average fight, so know them like the back of your hand! Nair (Attack while in the air)[ Image ] DK's Nair is his bread & butter, it's a very safe, very potent offensive tool that has almost no startup or landing lag. Whether you're fishing for hits in aerial footsies, facing shield pressure, or attempting to create some pressure of your own, a SHFF'd nair is likely your best choice. The initial hitbox has greater knockback and damage than the rest of the attack, so change your attack timing depending on what you want from your nair. Fair (Attack + Direction currently facing while in the air)[ Image ] This is a heavy-hitting, multi-purpose aerial attack with either large horizontal knockback or spike depending on your timing and spacing. Due to the move's noticeable startup time and landing lag, it should not be thrown around carelessly and is best used as a situational combo-ender or for off-stage edgeguarding. To spike your opponent, the shine at the end of the animation has to connect with the opponent, making this feature incredibly precise and unreliable. Fun Fact: if timed properly a SH'd fair can connect in a small arc over your head, allowing it to be used as an anti-air option or to simply convert a combo into edgeguarding much sooner against characters with very gimpable recoveries. [ Image ] Bair (Attack + opposite Direction currently facing while in air)[ Image ] Yet another very potent option in DK's air game. While it has longer startup time than nair, it has better reach and good knockback. As this is a much better option than fair in a neutral spacing/footsies game, you will often have your back to your enemy so that you have the option of SHFF'd nair, bair, or uair. This move is best used to convert to edgeguard or to space and mixup enemies that are getting comfortable with punishing your nair (especially with shield grabs, as a maxrange bair will leave you out of the grab range of everyone without a tether.) If the enemy has longer range on their normals (such as sword-wielders or ZSS), this will likely be your safest offensive option from the air. This is also one of DK's best choices for off-stage edgeguarding. Dair (Attack + Down while in air)[ Image ] Dair is a high knockback meteor with moderate startup and end/landing lag. This can be used to start a combo on a grounded target, or to gimp a predictable recovery. Like the fair, this is pretty punishable and shouldn't be used casually- if you get a good read this is a decent punish tool as it leads into any number of moves effortlessly. You probably won't be using this move often, but don't underestimate its situational utility. You can get some really low percent KOs on careless players with a simple Dair into DK punch! Uair (Attack + Up while in air)[ Image ] This is DK's #1 juggling tool- it has the perfect amount of vertical knockback and great speed. Get a low percent enemy in the air and you can juggle them mercilessly with these things- this method is incredibly potent on platformed stages like Yoshi's Story or Battlefield where you can continue your juggle to even greater heights. The quick animation also allows it to chase DI really effectively, giving you a lot of options to end your chain. If you are in a stage with a shoter blastzone or have a lighter opponent, try finishing with a Usmash. If you are against an enemy with a gimpable recovery, send them offstage as soon as possible. If you have a DK Punch, finish with a DK punch. If none of these apply, just wrack up as much % as you can safely and send them offstage. DK's Smash attacks are relatively fast, high knockback moves that will allow you to convert to edgeguard or straight up KO opponents. If you want raw damage, look no further. Fsmash (Attack + Left/Right Simultaneously)[ Image ] DK's Fsmash is a potent KO option. It has good range, a lot of knockback, and is surprisingly fast. If your enemy is at medium-high percent, this is probably the best and lowest-risk way to send them out on a read. If the enemy makes a poorly-spaced recovery attempt, take him out with fsmash. If the enemy misses tech or simply leaves themselves open for a hit, this will send them offstage without the need for anything technical or combo-based. Clean and simple. Dsmash (Attack + Down Simultaneously)[ Image ] Like many Dsmashes, this covers both sides of your character and is a good option when you're expecting the enemy may try to roll to your other side. It has moderate endlag but covers a good distance and has diagonal knockback that sends the enemy upwards and towards DK. This should not be ruled out as a low percent combo option as it can add a lot of percent while keeping your combo going, reducing the need for large air chains and having to deal with as much enemy DI. If the enemy loves to roll, try this as an offensive mixup. Keep in mind that this attack does not connect at the start of the animation (when DK's hands are at the apex of their swing). It will, however, connect shortly afterwards when the hands are traveling down (at around DK's ear-level). Usmash (Attack + Up Simultaneously)[ Image ] This is yet another fast, strong attack with decent range. It has strong upwards knockback and can KO lighter members of the cast from 65-75%. A pretty straightforward move. If the enemy is on a platform above you, this is an option (though likely not as good as a utilt or uair). Keep in mind that this attack does not connect on the ground during any of the startup, the hitbox is strictly above DK. Unless your opponent is DK and you are pretty much occupying the same space, this attack will not hit a grounded or even horizontally approaching target. DK's specials are full of intricacies and are an integral part of his game in high-level play. Intelligent and technical application of these moves can make or break your DK's effectiveness. NSpec (Special)[ Image ] (Charge) [ Image ] (Punch) This move is absolutely incredible. After ~2.5 seconds of charge time, you will have a ready-to-rumble, incredibly fast, incredibly safe punch with ridiculous knockback. The charge can be stored and gained through multiple charge attempts, and there are some interesting tricks around this that we will look at in more detail under the advanced techniques section. Pressing the button a second time while charging will use the punch prematurely, but it still gets power from the amount of time it has charged up to this point. Do not underestimate a half-baked DK Punch. A large portion of DK's game will revolve around combos that end with this move. If you have a charge ready, there are a myriad of 0-Death setups for DK that we will look at in the execution section. SSpec (Special + Right/Left)[ Image ] This is a short range headbutt that has different properties depending on your enemy's position. The attack will meteor an aerial target, while it will bury a grounded target in dirt, allowing for free hits (but no grabs). Though this is not a great offensive tool to use in the neutral game, it does have some utility that is worth looking at. If used in the air, it will stall DK in his current position. Though you will forfeit your horizontal momentum, this can be used as a recovery mixup to bait the opponent's edgeguard. If the enemy missed a ground tech and is laying on the floor, this move will bury them. If their percent is high enough that a DK Punch or Fsmash will KO them, consider this as another option to the jab reset. Dspec (Special + Down)[ Image ] This is DK's most underrated move, he slams the ground creating a shockwave that knocks enemies upwards and towards DK in a predictable arc. This attack induces an extroadinary amount of hitstun, allowing it to chain easily and setup virtually anything. If you hold down the special button/key DK will slam the ground repeatedly, but it is best to simply end the attack after one slam. This makes the move relatively safe as it is incredibly fast and applies greater-than-average shieldstun. The shockwave can also destroy a lot of weak projectiles, as well as PK fire. This method may be better than DK's other options (such as Dash attack & Uspec) because it's situationally safer and prevents DK from taking any damage. If the enemy misses a ground tech, this is often what i'll use to punish because it's so easy to combo off of. Keep in mind this attack only collides with grounded targets, if the enemy approaches with a lot of SH'd aerials then you could get yourself in trouble with this attack. USpec (Special + Up)[ Image ] PSA: By pressing the Special button/key from the air while this move is active, you will move up in exchange for some horizontal distance. The more you press, the higher you will go. This move is really good. It has so many technical applications and boasts some serious recovery range. The startup has great knockback and super armor, the spin blocks all sorts of projectiles and has really good priority. The last hit on the grounded version has greater knockback than the rest, allowing you to setup a combo at certain percents or put your opponent on a platform to prevent punishing. This move is incredible for both off-stage edgeguarding and dealing with shield pressure. Punishing this attack during the animation requires some very specific tools and situations that some members of the roster just won't have access to, making this move a lot safer than you would think, and in combination with some advanced tech this can be not only one of DK's safest moves, but allow for some hilarious mixups and opens up all sorts of punish opportunities. We will see a lot more of Uspec in the advanced technique and application sections. DK has a very potent grab game that allows him to open up all sorts of opportunities. He has chain grabs, combo setups, and the notorious cargo suicide! As a DK player, you will be grabbing a lot, so it's very important to know the ins-and-outs of his different options out of grab. Fthrow (Grab -> Direction currently facing)[ Image ] Also known as Cargo Throw, DK will put the enemy on his back allowing movement in either direction as well as jumping. This allows you to position the enemy somewhere more favorable before initiating the throw, such as closer to the edge or around platforms for a more effective follow-up. If the enemy is at mid percent and you want to convert to edgeguard, use this if you are facing the wrong way for a bair. If the enemy has poor vertical recovery and is at mid-high percent, walking off the edge with them will result in both of your deaths (the input required to break out of the grab is directly related to their percentage, so do not use this on a low percent target PERIOD). If the enemy is heavy or large, this can be a chain throw. (up to 56% on fox, 48% on DK, DI-able on both though it's much easier for DK) If the enemy is in a poor position or you want a platform to combo (on smashville or ToS, for instance), this throw will allow you to get to where you need to be. Some stages, such as Final Destination, will allow for stage spiking. Turn around, jump off the edge, and throw the enemy into the diagonal belly of the stage. At high enough percents this will net a KO, and with enough mashing you will be able to recover. Bthrow (Grab -> opposite Direction currently facing)[ Image ] This is your strongest throw. While not a great KO move on its own, this will be your best choice if you just want to get the opponent offstage. Dthrow (Grab -> Down) & Uthrow (Grab -> Up)[ Image ] [ Image ] I'm lumping these two throws together because they have very similar roles and interact with each other very closely in DK's chaingrab and setup game. They are both chainable from low to mid percent, but the Dthrow has lower knockback and moves slightly away from DK, whereas Uthrow simply goes above DK's head. Their minor diffences allow for versatility and setups at a greater percentage range than just 1 throw would allow, and makes it that much harder for your opponent to DI whatever you have to *ahem* throw at them. In general, Uthrow is better for combos and Dthrow is better for chaingrabs, but due to the nature of the game with varying weights, DI, and percentages, nothing is constant. Throws, especially these 2, will be looked at more in-depth in the application section. Advanced Techniques Here you will find some ways to use moves that you might not have known about. Do you run away from your opponent and spam roll to try and charge punch? Do you think Spinning Kong is bad? Read this. Safe and Discrete Charge with DK Punch Cancel: show DK's Punch takes about 2.5 seconds to charge fully, and seeing as it is his best KO move by far, it will be important to find the time and space to get charge time. Luckily, the charge can be initiated in the air and canceled with an airdodge. By SHFF'ing in this manner, it can become very easy to maintain acceptable levels or even finish a charge in the heat of battle. Your opponent may be very surprised to find that you have a charged DK punch in your arsenal! [ Image ] If you send an opponent offstage, do this a couple of times while converting to edgeguard. If there's ever any distance between you or an opponent, try inserting this into your approach to fill the dead space that would be spent dashing, you can even half jump so that the airdodge can be used to avoid projectiles. If you are ever in the air without intent to use an aerial, such as chasing a juggled target onto a platform or simply trying to land on a platform, use this. If you are sent vertically from a juggle or usmash and the enemy is attempting to follow up, the helplessness system in SSF2 prevents you from doing an airdodge until you initiate another action (such as a jump or aerial attack), but DK can immediately cancel a DK charge to airdodge on command, making him a hard target to combo beyond the range of anything guaranteed by hitstun. Also: The actual punching animation of DK Punch can be cancelled at any time with an airdodge- this can be used to prevent punishment on a whiffed punch, or to simply eliminate landing lag on a SH'd DK Punch. Punishing Reads with DK Punch: show [ Image ] DK Punch has super armor for the entire animation. The charge level of the punch does not matter, and as long as the attacks do not parry, you can land a DK punch while suffering the percentage of the enemy attack but not the knockback. To avoid parries on certain attacks, such as falcon punch or stronger fsmashes, make sure you time your DK Punch so that you are hit during the startup and not the actual punch. This can be a great way to turn around what your opponent thought was an advantageous position, and in combination with aerial punch cancels, the skies can be very unsafe for anyone trying to poach DK. If the enemy is attempting an Fsmash or other highly-telegraphed move and you have a 1/2 charge or greater, approach with a SH'd DK punch and cancel as soon as it lands. I guarantee you they will never do that again. If the enemy is attempting to end a combo while you are out of hitstun, or simply don't react well enough to your DI and miss a link, consider sending them off with a smile with the help of DK punch. Blocking and Parrying with Spinning Kong: show This is one of the many incredibly handy uses of DK's Uspec. The startup has super armor just like DK punch, and boasts good knockback. While the spin does not have armor classification, it is very adept at blocking energy projectiles. Here I will use Rasen Shuriken to demonstrate the general timing for the armor, vulnerability, and spin. [ Image ] Here, you can see the startup blocks the shuriken, but DK still takes full damage. [ Image ] Here, you can see the startup has ended but DK has not yet initiated the spin, causing him to take the hit completely. [ Image ] And finally, we see that Rasen Shuriken is completely negated by the spin, resulting in neither damage nor knockback. Do not tell the devs. Here are demonstrations of some of the things Spinning Kong can deflect; this is pretty much just for shock and awe and it can consume almost anything. [ Image ][ Image ][ Image ][ Image ][ Image ][ Image ] I would like to note, due to the projectile's awkward speed and precise timing, Kamehameha is difficult to armor using this tactic- punishing with DK punch would be a better option. Ledge Cancelling with Spinning Kong: show You may not know this, but DK has a really good ledge game and can ledge stall pretty effectively. By overlapping the startup of Spinning Kong with the a ledge in conjunction with momentum towards the stage, you can perform the initial, armored swing of Spinning Kong and then grab the ledge, completely skipping the lengthy spinning animation. Let that sink in. This has amazing applications when DK is forced to the ledge, this tactic makes him incredibly hard to punish in what should be a disadvantageous situation, as he is using a high knockback, super armored attack with no endlag, followed by ledge invulnerability. If you play DK, learn how to consistently execute this. Period. [ Image ] Depending on the timing of your Spinning Kong, you can use pretty much any amount of the initial swing before it becomes canceled, it will just take practice to become accustomed to. [ Image ] Here you can see a lot more of the swing, notice that the Spinning Kongs are pointed in the opposite direction of the stage. Reversing your USpec so that the backside faces your opponent is better, as the hitbox on the back end is much larger. Sliding and Fast Fall Canceling Spinning Kong: show Let's say for some reason, you can't take the ledge. Maybe you got hogged, maybe there's some form of denial, or maybe you just messed up your ledge cancel and are now spinning freely at the ledge. Stay Calm! You have options in aerial Spinning Kong that are not offered to grounded Spinning Kong. Aerial Spinning Kong has a different ending animation to the grounded version. This animation occurs immediately after the end of the hitbox and leads into helpless. [ Image ] However, this animation is treated the same as helpless, which means you can fast fall as soon as Spinning Kong's hitbox ends with virtually no landing lag. So essentially, the window to punish aerial Spinning Kong is only as wide as the time it takes for DK to touch the ground from fast fall. That makes for a window so small, that DK can even combo out of the minute amount of hitstun aerial Uspec's spin provides assuming he's low enough to the ground. [ Image ] That is not sped up or doctored at all. Scary stuff. Here is yet another interesting bit of tech for you- you can actually slide on the ground during that special pre-helpless animation. If DK is close enough to your opponent (so that his center of mass is attempting to occupy the same space as the other character), you can opt not to FF and instead go for what is essentially a sliding maneuver. You will have full horizontal control and can cover a great amount of distance at high speed. [ Image ] This might not have as many applications as an FF cancel, but on low percent enemies this is a great way to bait an attempted punish or just look incredibly cool. Application Here we'll look at a collection of hypotheticals and scenarios to learn how to deal with them. This way we can work towards applying this knowledge to the act of actually playing the game. I will also treat this as a general Q&A section- if somebody has a situation I overlooked or brings up a strategy that gives them trouble as DK, I will likely edit my suggestion into this subsection. So, the enemy and I have just started the match. The announcer has counted from 3 and we have been placed in our respective positions on the stage...What do I do? I can't give you all the answers; a lot of how you play is personal preference and matchup based, but here is what you should be asking yourself. "What is my opponent best at?" "What is my opponent worst at?" "What can I do that my opponent will have trouble dealing with?" "What can my opponent do that I will have trouble dealing with?" Can your opponent zone you out? Does s/he have decent recovery? What, if anything, can my opponent and I use in this stage to our respective advantages? This can be a lot of information to process, and I'm giving you more answers than questions, so here are your most concrete options for the very start of a fight. A.) Rush in and go for fast, short range aggression. This will likely be an attempt at an early chaingrab or SHFF'd nair juggles. With this decision, you will put your opponent on the defensive and hopefully rattle them mentally, or cause them to make bad decisions in order to evade you. B.) Move to control the center of the stage, post up for a more spacing-oriented start. This is a neutral decision, and shows more respect for your opponent's character, tools, or playstyle. Holding the middle of the stage is called stage advantage, and standing here will tell your opponent that you are the king of the hill, and you dare them to take it from you. C.) Charge DK punch. This is incredibly disrespectful, and will force your opponent to either charge, or allow you a free, fully charged DK Punch. They may make rash decisions in an attempt to cut your charge short, so this can be a decent option. That being said, you are giving up a lot of stage presence and put yourself on the defensive. This is an incredibly situational 'give a lot, gain a lot' style choice. It is also embarassing. So, I've grabbed my opponent...What do I do?Well first off, congratulations, you've just opened up a proverbial pandora's box-worth of options for inflicting pain or death on your opponent. That being said, you have a lot to consider before you find the throw and follow-up that's right for you. Luckily, I have a handy flowchart to help you in this process. It is incredibly well-designed and I am a professional. [ Image ] I'm having trouble finishing off my opponent, what are my options/what am i doing wrong?
If the enemy has reached 120% and they aren't dead, than it is likely that both you've made mistakes and your opponent has played well. First and foremost, you need to work on your edgeguarding game, as this is something DK excels at. With a backwards approach towards your opponent, you have the option of nair, bair, dair, sspec, or uspec. That's a lot of options, and I really don't want to make another flowchart. If the enemy and you are on a quick collision course, your choices are Nair and Uspec. Both come out incredibly fast and have good knockback if timed properly. If you are worried your opponent will airdodge, nair is quicker, safer, and allows for followups that you simply can't do after using Spinning Kong. Is your opponent at medium or higher percent? Spinning Kong's initial swing will send them to the blast zone, that I can guarantee you. Does the enemy have their second jump left? If they don't have their second jump, going for a dair or bair are solid options: they have better KO potential than nair and won't put you out of the edgeguarding game like Uspec, but are slower on startup which makes them avoidable. Or if you know they can only reach the ledge and not the stage itself, just edgehog them. Can I use fair to edgeguard? You can, but that's probably why your opponent is not dead yet. Fair is your slowest, most telegraphed option, and by attempting to edgeguard facing your opponent, you've removed bair from your options. These are both negatives. Do I have my second jump left? Wall of pain that guy. You thought only jigglypuff could run somebody out of town? Think again. [ Image ] (The uspec does hit, and you can easily make it back on any stage with 4-5 height boosts on your uspec. This is a suprisingly reliable setup at low-mid percent) Along with edgeguarding, you probably haven't been finishing off your combos properly. Have you been using 1 uair too many in your juggles, allowing your opponent breathing room to DI back to the earth? Any combo you do needs to end by sending your opponent offstage. Whether that's the blastzone or just forcing them to recover, you are now in a much more advantageous position than you would have been by wracking up 12 more percent while risking them getting off scott-free. You may have been whiffing too many DK punches, or simply not using them at all. That's a real shame, and it's something that you should work on immediately, as a fully charged DK punch gives you a lot of 0-Death options. Maybe we will look at a few in an upcoming section? So if somehow your opponent does reach a high percent, just do whatever you can to convert to edgeguard. Bthrow, Ftilt, Bair, Nair, even a dashing attack. Don't go for anything risky like a smash attack to gimp them straight out- learn to rely on that great edgeguarding game you've been working so hard on! If none of these things are true, your opponent is probably Yoshi. He has a lot of very matchup-specific options that need to be looked at, and hopefully that sort of thing can be discussed in more detail at some point. I love playing DK but I am getting absolutely busted up by enemy combos/edgeguards...What do I do?
DK is a very big monkey, and a lot of characters can do abnormally long combos and chaingrabs because of this. It sucks, and I feel for you. You need to adapt, and if you're really serious about this thing you need to start researching your opponents. Put some hours in the lab, find some players that main the characters that give you the most trouble, and definitely lurk on the character discussion pages for more than just your main. Learn the most potent combos everyone on the roster can do against DK, and learn the DI and tech timing required to escape finishers/extensions/links like the back of your hand. Do everything you can to make these combos as short as possible and when you can retaliate. Heck, try playing some other characters and see what it's like in their shoes. It will become much easier to identify what sort of DI would prevent your combo and at what percents different setups can and can't be broken out of. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
As far as getting edgeguarded goes, this definitely lies more on a per-matchup basis. What is KOing you the most? If the enemy is spiking you from the top of Spinning Kong, try to mixup your approach by moving away from the stage a little or going higher to throw them off their groove. If the enemy is waiting on the stage for you to get just close enough for a good smacking, use your vertical movement options to your advantage. Hanging out low and nabbing the edge, or simply flying far above their heads are just as good if not better than trying to Spinning Kong into them offensively. Also, if you're not knocked too far away, don't forget that Sspec can stop your aerial momentum completely. This is a great way to throw your opponent's timing off and keep them guessing. If the enemy is chasing you for aggressive offstage edgeguaring, don't underestimate Spinning Kong. If you are expecting an aerial attack to come out, armor through it with the initial swing and fly home! Chances are you'll hit the opponent too! I am getting completely zoned by projectiles/long, disjointed hitboxes...What do I do?
These things are definitely DK's bane- he does not enjoy getting zoned and it is difficult to get up close with sword-wielders or ZSS' whip. His size just makes things worse, he's so much easier to hit with absolutely everything, and the effort required to get in on someone with a good projectile game is high.
For projectiles, first and foremost get the hang of DK's different armor techniques as well as the timing for powershielding. I would recommend practicing the latter on Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho first (as it is the easiest projectile to reflect by far), and working your way up to more common fodder such as Samus' Missiles and Fox's Blaster. After that, get the hang of moving quickly on staged platforms- fastfalling and dashing as soon as you land simply makes you that much better at getting into your opponent's comfort zone. Now that you're a fast monkey that can deal with the occasional projectile, you can play mindgames and find openings in your opponent's ranged offensive. If they are using their projectiles to camp (such as Megaman or Samus), make them feel uncomfortable with that decision. Start getting SHFF'd DK Punch charges. If you have a charged DK Punch ready, you really shouldnt be afraid of anything. Armoring with dash attack or reflecting one projectile should create the hole you need in their defense to allow you to either setup for a DK Punch or just armor through a predictable attack with DK Punch. Also don't underestimate your Spinning Kong's ability to eat through a lot of character's projectile games.
If they are using their projectiles as an approach tool (such as Mario or Pikachu), this can be a much more dire situation. Spinning Kong is a great tool for shutting down this form of approach, but will become predictable. I won't ask you to powershield every fireball. This style of play puts DK on the defensive, which is not where he would like to be at all. Get comfortable with blocking these types of projectiles with a SHFF'd nair or bair, as well as armoring them with a dash attack. Learn your options out of shield, because you'll probably be using it more than you're used to. Shield Grabs, SHFF'd Nairs, and your Uspec are all objectively great options when under shield pressure.
For long disjointed hitboxes (such as Marth or ZSS), your spacing and approach just has to be much tighter than you might be used to. You may very likely be playing a reactionary or punish-oriented game, which is not outside of DK's tool kit but it certainly isn't his favorite thing in the world. Filling empty spaces of time with SHFF'd DK Punch charges is recommended since you'll want to capitalize on a good read or enemy mistake with as much percentage as possible. Make a conscious effort to focus as much as you can on the enemy character instead of DK. This should increase your ability to react to their movements and attacks. And again, get to know your options out of shield, because you may take some unwelcome pressure that you'll need to learn how to deal with. If they are very comfortable with simply zoning you and controlling center stage, then mixing up your approach with heavy use of dash dancing and DK's collection of approach options is mandatory. If you keep them guessing, you will have a much higher chance of getting in their comfort zone.
If all of these things are true, your opponent is probably Link. He has a lot of very matchup-specific options that need to be looked at, and hopefully that sort of thing can be discussed in more detail at some point. Execution This section will have a youtube video in it. Try to do these things. 1.) I apologize for the low quality of pretty much everything here. I'm treating the gifs as 'placeholders' until i can find a more permanent, higher quality solution. I am also terrible at forums. I am also terrible at making videos. I am also terrible at Jigglypuff. 2.) I would absolutely love to get my hands on some frame data. I am collectively winking at everyone. 3.) If you find a grammatical, spelling, or stylistic error, please PM me so I can edit that. The DK community discussion page is clearly not the place for it but at the same time I want to make this as coherent as possible. 4.) I mention a couple of times that I would love to have matchup-specific discussions. As it stands, the single continuous thread encompassing all of DK (or any other character for that matter) really can't support that sort of thing. At the same time, demand for this is likely far too low, and the community is likely far too small to make it a reality. 5.) If you have any disagreements or complaints, obviously you should voice them. This is a discussion and my word is not law. If you have any questions, you should also voice them. I want to talk about DK so badly he's so cool you guys for real please play DK. | | | | |
You forgot Ledge canceling with Spinning Kong from the ground (Probably could use it to prevent ending lag in case you didn't land that first hit) I would also say that N-air or B-air would be the go-to parry for Non-energy based projectiles, and D-spec if you can time it but this is my opinion. Also, there's a bit of utility in DK's D-spec in the air. You can use it to change direction without even using an attack. It could be used for a surprise B-air when the foe tries to read an attack. Or even just to show off. Apart from that i'm pretty happy with this guide, it explains the basic's of DK's overall strategy and then some with AT's and what not. | | | | |
You forgot or don't know that dash cancel tilts with DK is really usefull allowing you to approach with up and down tilt. With up tilt you can follow your opponents DI and dash cancel down tilt can combo into another at low percent carrying them across the stage.
_________________ I want my Luigi in flash!
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Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:53 am |
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TheCodeSamurai
BR Member
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:14 pm Posts: 2075 Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
Currently Playing: SSF2, MGS 3, Melee, Project M
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One more thing: good opponents won't fall for the cargo throw stage spike shenanigans, and DK doesn't really want to be in that position regardless: directly below an opponent and trying to recover. Just dthrow or uthrow -> anything instead.
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Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:00 am |
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Noghrilla
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:32 pm Posts: 6 Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
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Great Guide I have been applying those tech's since day one of 9b and I can honestly say he is one of the best
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Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:54 pm |
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MaskofTruth
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:18 am Posts: 609 Location: Lagcity, or lagless city if my phone is working Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: MaskofTruth
Currently Playing: SSF2
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Today was my first time playing as DK, and I gotta say that I am impressed. I had read the Comp. Guide(thanks a bunch) and managed to beat my rival's best Samus. IMO, DK is a 'do or die' playstyle that more often than not, succeeds in the 'do' section. "Charge them head on!"
_________________ Beta is finally coming ;-; (≧ω≦) I take it back, beta is a 1.0.2 is trash
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Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:51 pm |
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Sot6P
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 pm Posts: 853 Location: Konohagakure Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Sot6P
Currently Playing: SSBPM, SSF2 0.9b
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What are some common DK combos?
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Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:53 pm |
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_ &
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:33 am Posts: 10 Location: The Lab Country:
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Generally speaking, you want to be getting grabs or utilts, as they will lead to the meat of your damage output on combos for most of the cast (with chaingrabs and juggles, respectively). Moves that can lead into these reliably are nair, dspec, and grounded dair. That being said, tech chasing off any other number of moves (bair, dtilt, dash attack) or simply a raw grab can get the job done. If you have DK Punch, its most reliable setups are Dthrow, Dspec, or Uair. Dair or Sspec also work on grounded targets, but far less efficiently than Dspec in my opinion. As far as specifics, the combos I use the most are usually along these lines: Nair -> Grab -> Uthrow -> Utilt -> Uair -> DK Punch/Uair Chains -> Bair/Fair/Usmash Nair -> Grab -> Dthrow Chains -> DK Punch/Fthrow -> Bair/Fair/Reverse Uspec Dair -> Grab -> Dthrow -> Utilt -> DK Punch/Fair Fastfallers (I need to work on some good Fox-specific combos, that guy falls waaaaay fast). Dspec/Dash Cancel Utilt -> Uair -> Grab -> Dthrow Chains -> Uthrow-> Uair -> DK Punch/Fair/Bair Nair -> Dash Cancel Dtilt -> Dspec (Tech Chased)/Jab Reset -> DK Punch/Grab -> Uthrow -> Dsmash Floaties (These are somewhat similar to your normal combos, just without chains as they're much easier to DI. That being said, quite a few floaties have the added advantage of comboing out of Dtilt and Bair (ankle range and closer) at low-mid%) Dtilt/Bair -> Grab -> Uthrow -> Usmash Dspec -> Uair -> DK Punch/Uair -> Fair/Usmash Jab & Uppercut -> Grab -> Dthrow -> DK Punch/Dsmash -> DK Punch/Fair
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Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:01 am |
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Gimj
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:50 pm Posts: 1 Country:
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Made an account just to post about this character. I don't know who is in charge of this game's balance, but DK's recovery is literally the most blatantly overpowered, intended-change I've seen in a game. He is a comboing heavyweight with god-like recovery, broken concept in and of itself. You have to either kill him from the top or smash him at 200% just to ensure he does not recover. Spiking is possible but that UP-B can recover from anywhere pretty easily, not to mention his god-like ledge grab range.
DK was fine before this patch, but I will never use him again until this recovery buff is toned down extremely. It's just asinine, I'd say DK is the best character in the game now and his concept is inherently broken. The only weakness he has is his size and no projectile.
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:00 pm |
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kana
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:40 pm Posts: 56 Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
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His recovery can be beaten by attacking the hurtboxes on his arm, slightly after he starts his upB. Of course, he can trick you up by horizontally manipulating his recovery, but that's something you have to work around.
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:39 pm |
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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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When he is coming up from below his up-b (like riding a wall), you need to see if your character can do anything about it. For instance, Marth can go offstage a bit to dair, ZSS can dair or d-spec, etc.
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:58 pm |
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