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My Huge Super Smash Flash 2 Speculation Roster Analysis 
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12cheeper wrote:
Not like it really matters in a game like SSF2 where we actually do have characters from dead franchises( not counting mother which will never get another game or f-zero which has been dormant since f-zero gx.)Specifically I'm referring to chibi-robo and isaac.Not that I really mind but I doubt he's gonna get in anyways.I'd expect Dixie Kong before Andy tbh.

That is true I guess (regarding your first statement about dead/dormant series). None of the Chibi-Robo games have sold as much as any Advance Wars game so it's non-existent in anything other than the official Smash Bros games.

I expect that Andy will get in the game somehow because Wars is deserving of a character in this game and he's the best character to represent the series (all in addition to having a very unique moveset never seen in Smash Bros). Maybe as an unlockable in the final version (fingers crossed). Isaac got in so that gives me hope for Andy as well. IDK if Dixie's getting in this game because Diddy is going to have more priority than her as a veteran as well as being more important to the DK series and K. Rool eclipses her in popularity meaning he's likely to be the DK newcomer. Don't expect there to be 4 DK characters in the game.

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Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:07 pm
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12cheeper wrote:
Not like it really matters in a game like SSF2 where we actually do have characters from dead franchises( not counting mother which will never get another game or f-zero which has been dormant since f-zero gx.)Specifically I'm referring to chibi-robo and isaac.Not that I really mind but I doubt he's gonna get in anyways.I'd expect Dixie Kong before Andy tbh.


Ummm....... Chibi Robo just had a game release like a year or two ago and has an amibo I wouldn't call that a dead franchise. It's just ironic how the franchise began its revival just after he was announced in SSF2.

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Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:28 pm

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blackking1700 wrote:
12cheeper wrote:
Not like it really matters in a game like SSF2 where we actually do have characters from dead franchises( not counting mother which will never get another game or f-zero which has been dormant since f-zero gx.)Specifically I'm referring to chibi-robo and isaac.Not that I really mind but I doubt he's gonna get in anyways.I'd expect Dixie Kong before Andy tbh.


Ummm....... Chibi Robo just had a game release like a year or two ago and has an amibo I wouldn't call that a dead franchise. It's just ironic how the franchise began its revival just after he was announced in SSF2.

They said prior to release that they were gonna shelve the series if zip lash didn't sell well and we all know how that turned out.
Link if you don't believe me
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Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:05 pm
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12cheeper wrote:
blackking1700 wrote:
12cheeper wrote:
Not like it really matters in a game like SSF2 where we actually do have characters from dead franchises( not counting mother which will never get another game or f-zero which has been dormant since f-zero gx.)Specifically I'm referring to chibi-robo and isaac.Not that I really mind but I doubt he's gonna get in anyways.I'd expect Dixie Kong before Andy tbh.


Ummm....... Chibi Robo just had a game release like a year or two ago and has an amibo I wouldn't call that a dead franchise. It's just ironic how the franchise began its revival just after he was announced in SSF2.

They said prior to release that they were gonna shelve the series if zip lash didn't sell well and we all know how that turned out.
Link if you don't believe me
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/1 ... _franchise


Well maybe if they had actually made Zip Lash a fun game than it would have sold better.

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BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 1: Veterans

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1. Mewtwo/Lucario/Ike/King Dedede/Ice Climbers/ R.O.B./Diddy Kong/Pikmin & Olimar/Ganondorf
I do not think would I have to say much about them. These characters in particular are all unique re-appearing veterans that have a large contribution to Nintendo's history. I do believe that veterans that have appeared in Brawl and Melee will be the only ones included, not unique ones from Smash 4. There could be potential issues, with Olimar and Ice Climbers in particular, with potential issues of the engine not being able to run four of them at the same time, but I'm slightly more lenient that they could be in. Ike in particular could be replaced with another Fire Emblem newcomer that has not been in Smash yet, but I'll get to that when I get to runner ups.


I think that Mewtwo is extremely likely, since he was originally going to be in Super Smash Flash 2, but was later on scrapped. He was an unlockable character in Melee, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was unlocked the same way in the Beta update.
Lucario, being a semi-clone and essentially Brawl's replacement for Mewtwo, could make it into the Beta, however I consider it slightly unlikely. He could be included because of his aura mechanic, but he's still commonly regarded as a semi-clone, so I doubt that he'll make it. If he does make it, I think he'll be unlocked through completing classic mode on the hardest difficulty as Meta-Knight, because of the MK vs Lucario battle in the Subspace Emissary.
Ike will more likely than not be excluded from Super Smash Flash 2. People all hate how many Fire Emblem characters are in the Smash Bros franchise, so I doubt they'd include another. That would just piss people off. Besides, he would have to be sprited from scratch, and that would take a lot of work.
King Dedede will probably make it into the Beta. With the inclusion of Bandana Dee, it's clear that the devs love the Kirby franchise. In fact, as B. Dee was revealed, they specifically said that they felt like B. Dee was the one character that they felt should've been in Sm4sh to give the Kirby franchise one more representative, so why would they not exclude Dedede? After all, he already has sprites for them to base his SSF2 sprites off of.
Ice climbers is an unlikely possibility due to the fact that they'd have to work in the two characters mechanic. They could hypothetically do it, but they probably won't due to the fact that it'd lag the game too much, along with it being hard to program.
R.O.B probably won't be included due to the fact that a large portion of Megaman's moveset is based on R.O.B's, and it's clear that he's R.O.B's replacement in this game.
Diddy Kong is definitely a likely possibility, and I think he would be unlocked by completing all of the Lord of the Jungle events.
I doubt they'll include Olimar for the sheer reason of "Who the f*** uses Olimar."
I'm honestly surprised that Ganondorf isn't in the game yet. I think that when they add Ganon, they'll likely base it off of Crusade's or Project M's Ganon. As much as I loathe Crusade, I won't deny that they put a lot of love into their Ganon.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 2: Brawl Semi-Clones

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These characters are not grouped with veterans because they are not as important characters to Nintendo's history and have the unfortunate clone status that somewhat drags their chances down. And yes I am aware they are semi-clones, but I feel their status as clones alone could make them likelier to be excluded in the final roster. I still somewhat believe they could make due to their high popularity, but we will have to wait and see.

Lucas is a pretty popular character, and I wouldn't be surprised if they included him as an unlockable. He's different enough from Ness to be considered his own character, and spriting him would simply be a matter of modifying Ness's sprites.
Wolf isn't popular in the slightest, and people are already content with the representation from the Star Fox franchise, so I doubt that he'll be included in the beta. I think he'd be better as a palette swap for fox.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 3: New Nintendo Characters from Already Represented Franchises

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I recently think these kinds of characters will be included in the roster. Since Bandanna Dee's inclusion, I have been think about candidates that could potentially appear in this game, and it was pretty simple to figure out once I re-checked the most wanted characters Smash 4 speculation. In general, these are widely requested Nintendo characters from already represented franchises.

1. King K. Rool
One of the most HIGHLY demanded characters in Smash 4. Making an appearance as a Mii Costume as Smash 4 DLC, I feel like this character will likely be included due to his unique projectile-based abilities (like the crown and cannonballs), his importance to the DKC franchise, and an insane-minded personality that makes him stand out from other characters.

2. Krystal
As one of the most requested Star Fox characters since her debut in Star Fox Adventures, I really believe she could make it due to her uniqueness with the staff. Krystal's staff can summon fire projectiles, ice projections, create earthquakes, make forcefields, and even give her a boost in flight to make her a stand out from other characters.

3. Paper Mario
Although not as requested as K. Rool or Ridley, Paper Mario has been decently requested in Smash 4 and is a somewhat important to the history of Mario spinoffs. It did manage to get stage representation in Smash 4, but not character representation. I feel his unique abilities to take advantage of his paper form and a potential partner system that would make devs add him to the Smash Flash 2 roster.

4. Ridley
This was inevitable to add. Since his stage hazard appearance in Smash 4, many fans were in rage of his exclusion and Sakurai's reason for not including him. For SSF2 devs, I do believe they have a different philosophy with how they view Ridley, and I feel they will add him due to his outrageous fan demand, importance to the Metroid franchise, and his uniqueness as an airborne focused fighter.

I don't think King K. Rool will be included in the Beta due to the fact that a moveset would be hard to come up with or it would be too repetitive. In fact, that's probably the reason why he was only included in Sm4sh as a Mii fighter costume.
Just like with Wolf, Krystal is unlikely to get into the Beta because people for the most part are already content with the representation from Star Fox. People don't want her badly enough for her inclusion.
Similarly to K. Rool, Paper Mario probably won't be included due to the fact that a moveset would be hard to come up with. They had a lot of stuff to go off of with B. Dee, due to the fact that the Kirby franchise has so many moves and abilities to base his moveset off of (Spearcopter, Spear throw, Parasol dive, Wave beam, I could go on and on). With Paper Mario, the possibilities are much more limited in that aspect.
If Ridley isn't in the Beta, I will be shocked. People have been requesting him nonstop, he'd be relatively easy to sprite since he has so many sprite references across the Metroid franchise, and his moveset could be somewhat based off of Charizard's moveset, just like with how Megaman's moveset was based off of Rob's.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 4: New Nintendo Characters from Already Represented Franchises, But From Obscure Titles

[ Image ]

These kinds of Nintendo characters are widely requested from already represented franchises, only this time they come from much more obscure titles in Nintendo's history. Geno is one of the most requested characters from the Brawl era, while Skull Kid is one of the most demanded during the Smash 4 era and the most demanded Zelda character during that time. Both of these potential candidates have extremely unique abilities and personality with Skull Kid's dark magic/trickery and Geno's star powers (like the Geno Whirl and Geno Flash). I think these characters having far less importance in their respective franchises could affect their chances in SSF2. But who knows, the only main rule required is to appear at least once in a Nintendo console, so perhaps they could be chosen.

Geno is a very likely possibility. His moveset has lots of potential with plenty of moves from Super Mario RPG. The only problem would be creating his sprites from scratch.
Skull kid is too obscure to make it into Super Smash Flash 2.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 5: New Nintendo Characters from Unrepresented Franchises

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These characters are ones from Nintendo franchises that do not have character representation in official Smash games. I believe that the devs will be adding only new unrepresented Nintendo characters that first appeared during the Gameboy Advance/Gamecube era if Isaac and Chibi Robo are any indication.

1. Andy
Right after Isaac's inclusion, I feel Andy's inclusion should follow up. In Brawl and Smash 4, the Wars series did manage to get Assist Trophy representation, but not character representation. Advance Wars was one of Nintendo's major Gameboy Advance hits in the West that received critical acclaim from gaming review sites, and that notability would get SSF2 devs to consider Andy. Andy's abilities of summoning tanks, using tools, and other military weapons would make him an instantly unique addition in Super Smash Flash 2.

2. Ray MK
I thought about Ray MK's inclusion again right after Chibi Robo, as Custom Robo is commonly brought when talking about character representation for less-known Nintendo series . While it did manage to get Assist Trophy Representation in Brawl, in Smash 4, Custom Robo content is notably empty. Custom Robo is well known for its fast-paced robot battling gameplay and its high emphasis on customization. I feel the customization aspect and the many robotic weapons you get from the games would make for a VERY unique character for the SSF2 roster.

As with Skull kid, these two characters are too obscure to get representation.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 7: Huge Gaming Icons

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These characters are huge third-party icons that have a large share of history with Nintendo. With inclusions like Black Mage and Bomberman, it seems like SSF2 is going to have another with adding 3rd parties extremely relevant to Nintendo's history. Coming up with what third-party icons to choose was pretty easy for the most part.

1. Simon Belmont
Castlevania has a large history with Nintendo and the franchise as a whole has sold 20 million units of the games total. The original Castlevania games on the NES are Konami's most well-known classics praised for its dark-fantasy themes and action-based gameplay. With Simon's signature whip and other sub-weapons like the dagger, throwing axe, holy water, and a boomerang, Simon has enough to fill in an entire moveset for devs to play with. This iconic franchise has stage representation in Super Smash Flash 2, so could that indicate his inclusion? I highly believe so.

2. Snake
After Snake made a character appearance in Brawl, he was completely left out in Smash 4, likely due to issues with Konami. While Metal Gear Solid does not have much history with Nintendo, his veteran status and very unique moveset will likely bring him back in Super Smash Flash 2. The inclusion of Shadow Moses Islands also highly indicates his return. I feel that Snake is a lock for Super Smash Flash 2.

3. Ryu
Street Fighter has its fair share of history with Nintendo, with Street Fighter II and creating the fighting genre for video-games. I feel his inclusion was planned in Super Smash Flash 2 in the revamped roster way before Smash 4 included him because of that share of history with Nintendo and his iconic status. He already has a built-in moveset in Smash 4, so all that the SSF2 developers need to do is copy and paste that into sprite form.

4. Cloud
Final Fantasy VII is very well known by gamers to be the point where the giant RPG third-party company left Nintendo to make games for the Playstation, which made Sony the big competitor to Nintendo it is today. His importance and iconic status make me think he was likely planned for the Super Smash Flash 2 roster alongside Ryu. Like Ryu, he already has a moveset made in Smash 4, so SSF2 devs will not have much of a problem adding him into the game.

5. Crash Bandicoot
Although his franchise did fall apart eventually with the absence of Naughty Dog, like Final Fantasy VII, Crash Bandicoot became the mascot for Sony and was the franchise that competed against Super Mario in a similar vein to Sonic. I feel his opposition to Nintendo back in the Playstation 1 days and his fair share of Crash games on Nintendo platforms would make him a pretty likely candidate for SSF2.

6. Rayman
Rayman is considered to be Ubisoft's most iconic franchises to date. Rayman has his fair share of notable titles on Nintendo platforms with Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends that was temporarily exclusive to the Wii U. He even has trophy representation in Smash 4, but does not have character representation at all. Since the Artsy Omni leak, he's been one of the most demanded characters for Smash 4 DLC. I feel that demand will transfer over to SSF2 devs to develop the character. Not to mention, Rayman's limbless body structure and built-in moveset in Rayman Origins would make him an easy character to develop.

The thing all of these characters have in common is potential for a moveset. Personally, I think they're all fairy likely to make it into the Beta.
Simon Belmont is extrememly likely due to the fact that there are already plenty of sprites to go off of and a lot of potential for a moveset.
Snake already has a clear (and broken, but it's only about as broken as half the current cast's) moveset, but his sprites would have to be made from scratch or based off of Crusade's.
Ryu already has a clear moveset, many sprites to be used as references, and is an extremely likely candidate for the Beta.
Cloud also has a clear moveset, but no sprites to go off of. His sprites would have to be made from scratch, which makes him less likely than other characters.
Crash has plenty of potential for a moveset, but has little to no sprites, making him slightly less likely than Cloud.
Rayman is commonly suggested and has lots of potential for a moveset, along with plently of sprites to go off of, so I think he's a very likely candidate.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 8: Gaming Icons with Fair History with Nintendo

[ Image ]

These are third party characters who have some relevance to Nintendo's history. Although their games are not as well known as other huge third-party games, they did have their fair share of notability, success, and critical acclaim. Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia is widely regarded to be best Tales that first launched on a Nintendo system. Sora has a fair amount of notable games that first appeared on Nintendo systems like Dream Drop Distance and Chain of Memories.

1. Crono
Chrono Trigger on the Super Nintendo Entertainment System is considered to be the best game of all time by many gamers. And that is no joke, the game is praised for the amazing soundtrack, great story, fleshed out characters, very memorable moments, and simplistic fun gameplay. And I feel that one of a kind universal acclaim for a SNES game would be enough for the developers to add him as an unlockable character in SSF2. He has a nice variety of potential moves to use in Smash with his techniques like Thunder, Cyclone, Wind Slash, and Luminaire (for a final Smash) to fill in an entire moveset.

2. Terra
This is a wild-card pick, and there will be a bit of spoilers for FF6. Like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI is considered to be one of the best games of all time. Many hardcore FF fans consider Final Fantasy VI to be the best Final Fantasy in the franchise. For some, it is considered better than Final Fantasy VII. It is notable in Nintendo's history for being the last main Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo system. I believe that notability and critical acclaim is enough for Terra to be consider for Super Smash Flash 2. She has great moveset potential with her Esper form, Magicites, and the wide variety of magic she can learn through out Final Fantasy 6. The only thing she lacks is notable demand, but if less-demanded characters like arguably Black Mage and Chibi Robo could get in, I think Terra could get in.

3. Zero
Megaman X is one of Capcom's most iconic title on the Super Nintendo. The game introduced a new spin to the Mega Man franchise and introduced a highly popular Mega Man character named Zero. Zero would continue making appearances in Mega Man games and have his own line of spinoffs on Nintendo portables on the Gameboy Advance. I feel because of his popularity and notability with Mega Man X, he is a sure inclusion for Super Smash Flash 2.

4. Banjo and Kazooie
Banjo-Kazooie is consider one of the most innovative platformers on the Nintendo 64. After Microsoft acquired Rare, the demand for the franchise to return to Nintendo platforms grew greater as the years went by. This eventually led to extremely high demand for Banjo and Kazooie for Smash 4 after Phil Spencer commented that its certainly possible for them to get included in Smash Brothers. This did not happen of course with obvious right issues, but I feel that demand and history with Nintendo is enough for the devs to include them in Super Smash Flash 2.

With there already being one character from Chrono Trigger (And everyone hating him), I doubt people would take it well if Crono was added. Besides, I think that if the devs planned on adding in Crono, they probably would've added him from the beginning along with Lloyd.
With Black Mage and (possibly) Cloud, I doubt the devs would add in yet another Final Fantasy character, no matter how loved Terra may be.
Let's face it: The Megaman Franchise has enough moves for over 5 totally unique characters. Zero being an unlockable character is extremely likely probable, due to his potential for a moveset and large amount of sprites to go off of.
Banjo-Kazooie is improbable despite the fact that a lot of their moves could be similar to Duck Hunt's moves, just like with Ridley/Charizard and Megaman/R.O.B. and the fact that there's a high demand for them, since they'd have to be sprited from scratch and they don't have as much potential for a moveset as many other characters.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Category 9: Sonic Characters

[ Image ]

Sonic characters are usually one of the most demanded characters for Super Smash Brothers. The most notably demanded Sonic characters are usually Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow. Tails did manage to get into Super Smash Flash 2. I feel the same will follow for Knuckles and Shadow due to their high demand and unique move set potential. They feel like pretty obvious inclusions.

Knuckles and shadow are both extremely likely inclusions, due to easy to make sprites, moveset potential, and high demand.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
Smash 4 Newcomers: If there are going to be Smash 4 Nintendo newcomers in the game, I believe that Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Villager, and Shulk will make it due to their extremely unique qualities as Smash fighters that represent notable Nintendo franchises. Robin could be in instead Ike due to Awakening being the most impactful FE game and having the most unique qualities as a FE character, but could easily be replaced with another Fire Emblem character. Which brings me to the next candidate.

I think that Duck Hunt is much more likely to be included than Banjo-Kazooie due to their pre-defined moveset. They would still have to be sprited from scratch, but a pre-defined moveset makes them easier to include than Banjo-Kazooie.
Little Mac would be hard to sprite and is just an unlikely candidate due to his moves having... unique (yeah that's a polite way to describe them) hitboxes.
Villager, would have to be sprited from scratch, but I think he's a very likely candidate due to his moveset being pre-defined and fitting in with the rest of the SSF2 cast.
Shulk would be too hard to program and would have to be sprited from scratch, so I think that his inclusion is unlikely as well.
Robin has a unique moveset and, although they would have to be sprited from scratch, I think that they are a relatively likely inclusion due to the small amount of hatred they would recieve from being a Fire Emblem character because of their moveset's uniqueness.
BluePikmin11R wrote:
New Pokemon: I would not be surprised if the devs decided to make their own Pokemon newcomer. I mean there is A LOT of Pokemon in the franchise that have moveset potential. The only reason I kept this vague is because there are SO MANY potential candidates that they could choose its hard to predict who could be chosen.

I wouldn't be surprised if they added a new Pokemon.

In conclusion, I think that the roster will look less like this:
Image

and more like this:
Image

(Right click the image thing and choose "Open image in new tab")
But hey. Those are just my extremely skeptical and completely unjustified thoughts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Tell me if they're any good or not!

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Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:49 pm
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Happyfrozenfire wrote:
With there already being one character from Chrono Trigger (And everyone hating him), I doubt people would take it well if Crono was added. Besides, I think that if the devs planned on adding in Crono, they probably would've added him from the beginning along with Lloyd.

Umm, Lloyd is from Tales of Symphonia...

And I don't think that having no sprites to go off with is that big of an issue when it comes to spriting characters.
I mean, I'm no expert on the matter, and I do agree that it would make the job alot harder, but we've seen the ingenuity of the devs so many times over the years that have gone by, so I doubt that an obstacle like that would massively hinder their creativity.

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Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:40 pm
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Excellent analysis. While I do think the roster is a bit too large and I expect less, all of your inclusions make sense and I wouldn't mind if any got in (tho plz rayman before everyone else :mrgreen: )
off topic, but could I get a link to your Smash NX speculation roster? im curious of ur thoughts on that too..


Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:41 am
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Yeah, they're not going to add another 31 characters to the game. Maybe if you're lucky, you'll get 10.

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