Here you lost me entirely. First of all, MagicScrumpy did the right thing with Fox, his strenghts in Melee were polarizing and ridiculous. The character was the same, just not broken, and if your "concept" of Melee Fox's essence is being broken, then it's bad game design.

Jank is not something should happen by concept. Characters should have features, but those features should not bring jank. That is not okay under any situation. However, it is easy that as a designer you don't catch one thing that can be janky, that's completely understandable, but you should not just "let it slide".

But about Ichigo, yeah, I fee like he's just right atm, Beta changes make him look very nice.[/quoteveI agree that jank should always be unintentional.

@thebeep
You seem to keep bring Melee up for some reason whenever something you don't like happens.

Also you kinda missed your point after saying Sm4sh. You went on for some reason talking about Fox being nerfed, saying Peach, Puff and Samus would rule the meta game some how and that wouldn't be Fox. I find that weird since Fox got those nerfs in Brawl and Smash 4, where he was still considered good.

time for the salty comeback



Fox in Brawl and Sm4sh are p.much two different beings to me.
Perspectives of characters always change from game to game, because of physics/moveset/other new/revamped characters.

I still think that nerfing Shine that hard is pretty off to me. Removing i-frame for the only active frame the move has? Alright, I'm down. But anything else is just overdoing it, since you gotta commit to using Shine anyway.

What I mean saying that Fox wouldn't be Fox anymore, is not that he's suddenly bad because of the nerfs he gets, but he wouldn't be the prime example of the game he reigns in imo.

And yes, if Fox was nerfed like this in actual competitive play, Peach, Puff and Samus would practically dominate. U-air getting lower KB, U-Smash too (i think), then less as effective lasers and a less as powerful shine would make their matchup with Fox... pretty darn easier.
But I think that's enough of me complaining about some college guy's "Balanced Melee" mod that little people would play in the long run.
i bet he nerfed him so hard because he's a peach main smh

Is talking about the most competitively successful Smash game taboo? Also, I don't just mention Melee when I feel like disagreeing with something. It's usually what I talk about yes, but it's not the only thing.

Good to see that you guys agree on the basis on Ichigo not needing to be nerfed. It's just unnecessary at best.

gotta add a at the end of a comment just to make myself feel 1% less salty that people disagree with me

You are scaring me.

You are salty?

Its not a taboo, just most people who bring up Melee tend to think that Melee is the only game that matters or they think they know everything. I am fine with Melee, but people who constantly bring it up makes me wary.

Not sure how would they if they still have other mus to deal with.

Anyway I think Ichigo's fair should have more horizontal range.

obusly no, and thas good at least for me. it feels fresh now all the people who use the char only for power have 2 options learn new set ups or drop the character, for example if devs nerf bair or fair a lot of people will drop them



also i want some of the nerfs of mask, IMO smashes are balance but the rest of the moves (specials) arent op but are anoying

I won't drop them if those were nerfs and beep said that, not me about Fox not being Fox anymore.

I understand his specials are annoying, but they can be punished.

you asked to nerf his uptilt,dash,sideb, one part of the jab and uair. There is only one special on this list

Can you stop just being annoying Lord of d? We're discussing how to balance a competitive ichigo, you can continue to spam whatever you like afterwords

Here's the thing with current Ichigo: the design of the character is built around the fast approaches of side-B and dash attack. To substantially change those is to significantly change the character. If you want to make dspec a little less weird, or tone down kill power on some of his moves, or make his recovery more punishable, than that would be different, but I don't think it's impossible to balance a character around the approaches he already has, and seeing people constantly want to nerf them is I think missing the point.

Thank you code.

Ichigo's approach options are mostly side special, dash attack and down tilt which are punishable on shield.

You can also approach by a wavedash grab or jab or use nair or bair for a safer approach.

Ichigo's approach options can shut down other approach options depending on the character and if timed right. Like I said before, his own approach can be stuffed if the Ichigo approachs to recklessly so their is the balance in that.

I have a question.




Why the f*** are you nerfing a character who has more weaknesses than strengths?

Why nerf ichigo?

Christ. There are characters more deserving of deep hard nerfs.
Why are they giving him more than 1 nerf like wtf.

Many characters need like 10 or 11 nerfs
*cough* MARTH *cough*

Dude stop being butt hurt about Marth. All because you can't handle him doesn't mean others can't.

I do agree about the over nerfing Ichi.

Considering that im the only one who voices my hate, your statement is invalid. Ask anyone on anthers or discord, and you will most likely get the same complaints

Poor mac.

Anyway I think Ichi needs a kill throw.

you mean apart from the gimmick of Dthrow?

I think people just don't know how to meteor cancel it fast enough.

Also their is a possibility of it getting nerfed.