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Sora 
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Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:40 pm
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Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:34 pm
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Sora: Slow, weak, cant recover, but was given massive combo game. Sora is controversial all around.

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Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:22 pm
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LilMac wrote:
Sora: Slow, weak, cant recover, but was given massive combo game. Sora is controversial all around.


Lemme correct you:
- Sora isn't slow. His speed is around average.
- Sora is only weak, KB wise. He has a pretty good damage output.
- Sora can recover, it's just more difficult to.
- Controversial all around? In what way?

I'm gonna ask you two things:
1) What are you smoking?
2) Can I have some?

:P

So time for my Sora changelist: show
Buffs:
General:
- Sora has a mild increase in range on his keyblade attacks.
- Sora gets a small increase to his grab range.

Ground Attacks:
- Sora's FTilt does more knockback.
- Sora's UTilt has decreased KB, but increased KBG, making it a better comboing move, but not outright spammable.
- Sora's DTilt does more damage. 4% -> 8%
- Sora's Dash Attack can be acted out of sooner, and jump cancelled, improving his approach.
- The sourspot at the base of FSmash is slightly stronger.
- FSmash's sweetspot does more horizontal knockback.

Aerial Attacks:
- Nair's damage is increased to 10%
- Fair's KB scaling increases but it's base KB decreases, making it viable for combos, but better at killing.

Throws:
- DThrow does less KB, but sends foes at a slightly more upward angle, allowing for Aerial Followups after a grab.
- UThrow's base KB and KBG decreased, making it better at chain throwing.


Special Moves:
- Strike Raid can be smash thrown in a similar manner to Project Crusade Ryu's method of performing EX Hadoken. If the direction Sora is facing is tapped in a similar manner to executing Smash Missiles, then Strike Raid will function similarly to 0.9a Strike Raid.
- Flowmotion can be cancelled by pressing Special, similar to Fox Illusion. Doing so will remove the hitbox, but it will not put you in to helpless. You will not be able to cancel the move if you angle it, and the move will deplete your double jump.
- DFlow and UFlow do slightly more shield damage.
- DFlow will always meteor smash.
- Flowmotion can be angled more steeply and doesn't stop momentum after use.
- (OLD) Thundaga meteor smashes.
- (OLD) Finishing Leap can be angled in a similar way to Super Jump Punch.

Nerfs:
General:
- Sora gets a decrease in falling speed.

Ground Attacks:
- Up Tilt does less damage (8% total)

Aerial Attacks:
- Fair does less damage (9%)
- Bair does less damage (10%)
- Bair has higher KBG, making it less efficient for comboing at high percents.
- Uair does more KB, making it less spammable.

Special Moves:
- Strike Raid can no longer be cancelled.
- Flowmotion has a priority decrease, so it won't travel through many projectiles.
- Flowmotion has more endlag, preventing it from being spammed.
- NFlow has a higher decrease in KB when staling, preventing infinites.
- Thundaga no longer eats through certain projectiles (old)

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Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:42 pm
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DSwift wrote:
LilMac wrote:
Sora: Slow, weak, cant recover, but was given massive combo game. Sora is controversial all around.


Lemme correct you:
- Sora isn't slow. His speed is around average.
- Sora is only weak, KB wise. He has a pretty good damage output.
- Sora can recover, it's just more difficult to.
- Controversial all around? In what way?

I'm gonna ask you two things:
1) What are you smoking?
2) Can I have some?

:P




So time for my Sora changelist: show
Buffs:
General:
- Sora has a mild increase in range on his keyblade attacks.
- Sora gets a small increase to his grab range.

Ground Attacks:
- Sora's FTilt does more knockback.
- Sora's UTilt has decreased KB, but increased KBG, making it a better comboing move, but not outright spammable.
- Sora's DTilt does more damage. 4% -> 8%
- Sora's Dash Attack can be acted out of sooner, and jump cancelled, improving his approach.
- The sourspot at the base of FSmash is slightly stronger.
- FSmash's sweetspot does more horizontal knockback.

Aerial Attacks:
- Nair's damage is increased to 10%
- Fair's KB scaling increases but it's base KB decreases, making it viable for combos, but better at killing.

Throws:
- DThrow does less KB, but sends foes at a slightly more upward angle, allowing for Aerial Followups after a grab.
- UThrow's base KB and KBG decreased, making it better at chain throwing.


Special Moves:
- Strike Raid can be smash thrown in a similar manner to Project Crusade Ryu's method of performing EX Hadoken. If the direction Sora is facing is tapped in a similar manner to executing Smash Missiles, then Strike Raid will function similarly to 0.9a Strike Raid.
- Flowmotion can be cancelled by pressing Special, similar to Fox Illusion. Doing so will remove the hitbox, but it will not put you in to helpless. You will not be able to cancel the move if you angle it, and the move will deplete your double jump.
- DFlow and UFlow do slightly more shield damage.
- DFlow will always meteor smash.
- Flowmotion can be angled more steeply and doesn't stop momentum after use.
- (OLD) Thundaga meteor smashes.
- (OLD) Finishing Leap can be angled in a similar way to Super Jump Punch.

Nerfs:
General:
- Sora gets a decrease in falling speed.

Ground Attacks:
- Up Tilt does less damage (8% total)

Aerial Attacks:
- Fair does less damage (9%)
- Bair does less damage (10%)
- Bair has higher KBG, making it less efficient for comboing at high percents.
- Uair does more KB, making it less spammable.

Special Moves:
- Strike Raid can no longer be cancelled.
- Flowmotion has a priority decrease, so it won't travel through many projectiles.
- Flowmotion has more endlag, preventing it from being spammed.
- NFlow has a higher decrease in KB when staling, preventing infinites.
- Thundaga no longer eats through certain projectiles (old)


Hell,you main him not me. I have no say.

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Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:07 pm
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I don't think Sora is as bad as people say he is. He has outstanding damage output if used correctly, so-so recovery, and meh kill power. (I know he lacks kill power but it isn't as bad as people say it is.) His flaws are basically bad matchups, bad range compared to other sword chars, and his tools. I don't think he deserves the placements people usually give him. Then again, I don't use sora so what do I know? :?:

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Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:30 am
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Sora has a poor neutral. Usually he has to rely on DTilt, DA and occasionally UTilt in order to get combos from neutral, which generally have less range and/or are more punishable than most of his attacks. Furthermore, his lack of a good approach option is crippling. This means he must rely almost exclusively on openings to get combos and his outstanding damage output. He's also amazingly vulnerable to spikes (I once got KO'd at 15% with meteor cancelling from Sonic's Bounce Attack), and recovering with Side-B is supremely unsafe as it doesn't immediately snap to the ledge. Because he relies so much on platforms, you are utterly screwed on flat stages most of the time. For instance, :bomberman:/ :sora: is 75:25 in :bomberman: 's favour normally, whereas on a stage like Smashville or FD/ToS, the matchup goes to being absolutely horrible for Sora, maybe even 85:15 because :bomberman: can just take complete stage control either way.

Usually, as with most things, Sora's matchups decide his place on the list. Sora has no winning matchups. So, whilst Sora has the ability to get far in tournaments, the player either needs to:

1. Lag and spam
or
2. Play über precisely.

So the TL;DR is basically the placing is deserved. Sora can be around 27-29, but that's as far as he should go. Any higher and it's unjustified.

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Last edited by TSF.Strife on Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:15 am
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I wouldn't really say MUs are only what make up tier list results, but they make up the majority. Also, Sora's recovery might be a bit better than I thought because of how he can use thundaga and sr to get back onstage. Especially sr when you use it on one of the sides of a stage, it will appear on the ledge.

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Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:02 am
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didn't sora win a tournament recently? ;)

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Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:48 am
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TyranitarLord wrote:
didn't sora win a tournament recently? ;)

Yeah, but that player in question relied on lag/spamming Flowmotion to win.

Cruisin wrote:
Also, Sora's recovery might be a bit better than I thought because of how he can use thundaga and sr to get back onstage. Especially sr when you use it on one of the sides of a stage, it will appear on the ledge.


True, but the SR on the side usually will make you fall too low to get back up to the stage with Up-B. If Sora also gets hit with a windox when using SR at the edge, he will plummet off the stage and die.

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Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:53 am
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So, I have another guide extract:
Finishing Leap: show
Apologies this took so long. I've had a lot on...

Finishing Leap:

This is easily Sora's best special move. For a few reasons:
  • You can use it twice from the ground.
  • It doesn't leave you helpless, so you can extend combos without the need to land.
  • You can cancel it at any point in the move into an aerial.
  • You can use it as a combo starter and a combo breaker, because it's surprisingly fast.

It also has a reverse hitbox, which is useful if you want to guarantee back airs off of this move. With this property, you can get some rather high damage true combos off a jab reset. For instance:

Jab - Reverse Up-B -> Bair -> Uair -> Up-B -> Fair.

This is a guaranteed 57%. Because of UAir's properties when falling, you could in theory string another UAir when falling to extend the combo. Additionally, were you to land the reverse hitbox again, you would be able to potentially extend this to 77% if you land the moves perfectly. This is slightly more effective on larger characters, which is useful for you, because many of your worst matchups are these larger heavier characters.

Finishing Leap's property of cancelling into an aerial, much like Lloyd's Tiger Blade, make it a good combo starter. Often you can get a surprisingly good amount of damage just from an Up-B aerial. The percentages are as follows:

Up-B -> Nair = 15%
Up-B -> Fair = 23%
Up-B -> Bair = 25%
Up-B -> UAir = 15%
Up-B -> Dair = 15%

Bear in mind, that because many of Sora's aerials also link, you can further this damage output, adding a Fair to a Dair/UAir/Nair will up the damage to 29%. Fair after Bair can do 39%. Double Bair can do 41%. The list goes on.

Because of it's relatively fast startup, Sora can use this to get out of combos, and start his own. However there's one major disadvantage:

If you're by the edge, misinputting the direction can be fatal. :(

However, it's easily Sora's most reliable method of breaking combos, which he desperately needs of he wants to change the momentum of the match to himself once again. The fact that it leads into any aerial is icing on the cake.


It was fairly short this time, but, I've started on my next big installment.

The Neutral Game: show
The Neutral Game
Sora's neutral is less than stellar, however he has at least some options to use when taking on the neutral game. In this section, I'll be outlining uses of Sora's options he has for playing the neutral, as well as how useful they are. Below are the list of options he can have when playing grounded.

I will also list the tools in the neutral that they play, in other words when to use them:
  • Jab - Get-off-me option
  • Forward Tilt - Combo tool/Get-off-me option
  • Up Tilt - Combo starter/tool
  • Down Tilt - Combo starter/tool
  • Dash Attack - Combo tool/Get-off-me option
  • Forward Smash - Finisher
  • Up Smash - Anti-air/Finisher
  • Down Smash - Damage tool/Projectile defence
  • Grab and Throws - Chain grab
  • Strike Raid - Damage tool (aided by cancelling)
  • Flowmotion - Pseudo wavedash, combo starter (latter is very situational)
  • Finishing Leap - Combo starter, shifts the focus to air game.
  • Thundaga - Projectile defence (situational)

Seems a bit of a mess, right? Well, I'll explain each of the roles and the rank I give them in doing their job.

Combo starters:
From most useful to least useful: Finishing Leap, Down Tilt, Up Tilt, Flowmotion
In terms of starting the combo, Finishing Leap is easily your best option, simply because it can take you into a zone where you can generally be more comfortable with Sora. It's ability to cancel into an aerial gives it double the utility.

Down Tilt is a fast poke that can lead to itself, up tilt, forward tilt, forward smash and many others at the lower percentages. I will add a list of things this will work for. It has less range and damage than many of Sora's other tilts, but it is nonetheless a very useful combo starter because of these properties.

Up Tilt is a bit more on the sluggish side, but it makes up for it by having a good amount of horizontal coverage and disjointed range. It hits twice and deals 14%, whilst being able to combo into itself on fastfallers ( :fox: , :captainfalcon: and :bomberman: ). It's less useful as it can be a bit slow, but it is generally useful.

Flowmotion is generally to risky to throw out in Neutral. It's startup is long, you die if you go off the edge with it, even by a little. It's easy to punish, and generally it isn't viable for combo starting. If you do use it, make sure to flowcancel it and for comboing, NFlow is generally the best option.

More coming soon...

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Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:35 am
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So, here's some sick nasty tech for you Sora manila-folders. Discovered (I assume) by Miracle--7
http://gfycat.com/SnappyEmptyAfricanjacana
http://gfycat.com/KaleidoscopicLastGalapagosdove

You can drag people at the ledge down with flowmotion to get a free stagespike. As seen in the gfycats, it works on 3DS and SV, but I am pretty sure there are other stages with ledges that may also work. There is no known restriction based on character, if any, at this time.

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Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:05 pm
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GreeNinja56 wrote:
So, here's some sick nasty tech for you Sora manila-folders. Discovered (I assume) by Miracle--7
http://gfycat.com/SnappyEmptyAfricanjacana
http://gfycat.com/KaleidoscopicLastGalapagosdove

You can drag people at the ledge down with flowmotion to get a free stagespike. As seen in the gfycats, it works on 3DS and SV, but I am pretty sure there are other stages with ledges that may also work. There is no known restriction based on character, if any, at this time.


I found that this worked on platforms, but I didn't know it worked on the ledge. It's a tapped downwards input when executing flowmotion.

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Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:22 am
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Mr.Sprite wrote:
Neutral FM stage spikes.

https://gfycat.com/SorePertinentGonolek

I haven't really tested it much on most legal stages, but so far it stage spikes on SV and DL.

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Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:53 am
DSwift... I'm not Flowmotion Spammer. :annoyed:

Main: :sora:

Secondaries: :lloyd: :gameandwatch: :isaac:

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Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:26 pm
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