^ tl;dr - Massive start up/end frames suck.

Yeah, can the mods actually replace the old tier list thread with this one at the top? Thanks.

update the op with the cute lil character icons that were made not too long ago and deal

What character icons?

I think he's referring to the ones made by Former BR member Saikyoshi.

I think he's talking about the ones made by saikyoshi here

Some of those have really stretched pixels and are kind of ugly. I'll remake them and post them tomorrow.

I just did it.


I'll change them when you finish, just PM me and let me know when you're done.

theyre going to be redone by geno very soon bc they're being added as forum smileys

We will see how good they are and then we might use them for the wiki.

all of my characters are bad

Just because hey are low they dont have to be bad. This game has no non-viable character, you can win tourneys with anyone.

people go on about how every character is viable, but when you look at the number of bad matchups certain characters have, you question whether winning a tourney with them is actually gonna happen

for instance, falcon.
(I think falcon is viable but it's a good example in this case)
falcon seems GREAT on paper. amazing speed, combos, KO potential, lives for a while due to heavy weight and pretty great neutral game. he's a good character, right?
however, he has so many bad matchups that he's not actually as great as you might think.

also I don't think there have been any tournaments where anyone's won with a low tier - correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think characters such as chibi and megaman and such are viable, cause they have too many losing matchups and are ALSO pretty bad on paper compared to the rest of the cast

Sekanor won X1 with Samus.

Thanks Jammy. I agree with him on this. I always see people say everyone is viable, but I hardly see that happen except seeing DK last demo who shouldn't even had been close to the bottom.

I do see Falcon as one of the top viable characters right now, but I agree with Jammy that his MUs are troubling especially when more players are able to get better with the MU of facing Falcon. It's like in the main games in all of the games with the exception of Brawl that Falcon is a tournament viable character, but has hard MUs that take away the true tournament viability away from him. Two, well known Falcon players such as Scar, Mang0 and even Hax, who was considered the best Falcon in Melee before dropping him for Fox, even trash talks that Falcon might not win any tournaments with Mang0 being the only one to prove how good he is. Jammy is not in the wrong for voicing his opinion on how well Falcon is going to do.

@Ermac
Really? How long ago was that? How many of the top players were in the tournament? Also how many people knew how to deal with Samus at the time?