Didn't the devs go out of their way to remove chain grabs in general? And not just remove them, but make the previous chain throws useless.

The only Chibi's chaingrab was F-throw and still is to this day, I don't see major differences, considering he can angle the throws now, so I don't know what you are on about.

Ah, yes, forgot to include up-throw for fast-fallers, but it is kinda hard to execute.

A rare thread bump by me

Can we talk about vs for a bit?

Chibi is a ranged character, with the newly added up-air and automatic air-blaster making him even more ranged that he already was. Bowser relies on attacks and a projectile which can be easily dodged, shielded and picked-up by Chibi, with the exception of offstage, Chibi fails really hard there. Once in Bowser's grasp, (*cough* Bowsercide *cough*), even DIing, it's hard to escape his combos and the fact that he transfers a lot of damage, as well. Chibi is a fast-faller and light-weight, making him an easy prey for Bowser.

Although, you can play defensively and almost never give a chance to let Bowser lure you into combos, by using ranged moves. Look at this recent replay for example, and yes I know that Bowser wasn't skilled enough, or I never gave him the chance to combo me but still, it speaks out for itself. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m76ituostgllk ... sfrec?dl=0

And then there's this - edgeguarding. Chibi has a ranged Dair consisting of enough knockback to kill Bowser at low percent, due to the low recovery of his up-b. Same goes to Bowser, his dair has spike and has N-spec with a lot of knockback which can prove devastating, although you still could recover at low percentage, medium percent could cause a problem. Not to mention Chibi's blaster can cancel the jump animation, forcing your opponent to use Up-p, which then you can freely use Dair.

So, I would give this the MU of 55-45 in Chibi's favor. If you have anything to argue with, don't agree with the MU or just have something to add(looking right at you, Skailer!), I will be more than pleased to listen.

I have been summoned

Chibi vs. Bowser is incredibly volatile, at least as volatile as Chibi can be. He absolutely bodies Bowser in the neutral game thanks to Blaster, and Fair/Bair outrange just about anything Bowser can throw out with the exception of Fair, and DTilt(?). Not to mention that Bowser lacks disjoints, while virtually every spacing move that we have is disjointed. Then we have grab and FSmash and Bowser being not any faster than us and you got yourself an incredibly one-sided neutral game. Fireball is nice and all, but Chibi Blaster is much less laggy, much more mobile and much more effective overall. The neutral game is a huge part of why Chibi wins this MU in my opinion.


Punish game is easily as one-sided as the neutral game, although this time it favours Bowser. Bowser is big and heavy which means Chibi can get some stuff going, but at the end of a day it is a character without any real KO power against the heaviest char in the game. Meanwhile can tear Chibi apart in the case that he actually does get in and dish out 60%+ or take the stock right away. Bowser destroys anyone he lands a hit on, and Chibi with arguably the worst disadvantage stage in the game is definetly no exception.


Next up we have landing coverage. I already mentioned that a few times, but Chibi is fantastic at denying landings in this game, even moreso against a character with poor landing options such as Bowser. Im giving this its own section because it actually is super important for both characters - Chibi has his patented anti-airs such as Blaster, USmash (well, kinda), Fair, Up Grab, Fair etc, while Bowser can safely shark platforms with his huge UTilt to keep Chibi above him. Chibi does however have the added benefit of Toothbrush, which allows him to stall a bit in the air to throw off Bowser or just straight up go offstage to try and get ledge if high enough. The more platforms there are the easier it is for Bowser to land and to anti-air Chibi, but even on stages like BF Bowser should at the very least be forced to land in a bad spot, most likely after eating quite a bit of damage.


Offstage game is also pretty interesting. You already said that Bowser struggles against our Dair, and you are completely correct on this one. Dair absolutely bodies Bowser should he ever be forced to recover low (and if Dair missed due to a fadeback we still can grab ledge in time if we are fast enough). Offstage game in general is brutal for Bowser - Bair safely knocks him further away from the stage, Down Grab prevents him from sweetspotting the ledge, FSmash and FTilt punish Bowser for overshooting the ledge, DTilt does the same and can lead into Dair or Uair, Blaster can snipe his second jump, Dair, and then the aforementioned landing coverage if Bowser gets the chance of going high. Its really not fun.

On the flipside Bowser is actually a decent edgeguarder. Fair, Bair, Dair and Fireball are the biggest threats to Chibi. Fireball is a projectile with pretty ugly knockback if youre trying to recover, but is usually avoidable by smart Side B usage. Side B does however lose to Bowsers aerials due to it being quite linear, so Chibi will have to be very mix-up reliant. Blaster actually is super useful to get back onstage with enough height provided, and rising Fair/Uair from below the ledge can punish Bowser for being too greedy. Keeping your jump is also very important for Chibi for obvious reasons. However, eating an offstage Fair by Bowser will usually result in death above mid percents, so even with all the mixups Chibi has it is by no means free. Except for getting close to the ledge of course, Toothbrush is busted



Stage choice is actually very important for this MU. Surprisingly enough Chibi will want to take Bowser to stages with few or no platforms in order to maximize his strong anti-air game and Bowsers large issues when being above his opponents. Likewise, having fewer platforms also weakens Bowsers anti-air game as he cannot clip platforms with his UTilt to catch Chibi above him. Of course UTilt is still a valid option, but having platforms really helps that move a lot.

Stage size is also important of course. Having a large stage such as DL means that the already lopsided neutral turns even more in Chibis favour, but it also emphazises our already poor KO power, while Bowser is going to kill us reliably early no matter what most of the time. Meanwhile, we can kill Bowser at... somewhat reasonable percentages if we take him to a stage such as Castle Siege or WW, but that hampers incredibly hard with our neutral game and will give Bowser extremely early KO opportunities. I would recommend larger stages for that reason. Chibi Castle (duh), Dream Land, FD/WR (ToS also works, but the offstage platforms make the stage much better for Bowser than FD) and Saturn Valley would be my preferred picks for this MU, with PC propably being my alternate pick if those are not available. Do not let a Bowser take you to Castle Siege, WarioWare or RR ever, youre going to get hurt a lot. Id also advice against SSZ because of the really low ceiling and Bowser Uair (and me hating the new SSZ in general), and BF also is an iffy pick imo.


tl;dr~ Never lose neutral or lose the stock, poke at Bowser as long as neccessary to kill him,even if that means 200%+ per stock. As long as he doesnt hit you youre fine, kinda like a more extreme version of Marth/Peach in Melee. Stay patient at all times, it will cost you otherwise. Dont overextend, stay safe. Maximize stage control, edgeguarding and landing coverage and try to avoid being above Bowser offstage. The key is to be so dominant in neutral and build enough of a lead that Bowser cannot close the gap on the instance that he does get in on you. 55:45 sounds like a fitting MU ratio.


Ill add the one replay of this MU I have below - tournament match against Gax's Bowser. I would put this as an extension, but for some reason the .ssfrec file type is not supported, so take this link instead: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u1wb83b2b1okkwv/AACFXGtCtrZCARMPAQCD3aawa?dl=0

I think Chibi's challenge in edge-guarding is he has a lot of moves with upward trajectory or can be DI'd favorably up, so Bowser can recover high. While this obviously exposes him to Chibi's great air coverage, it's the minimized loss as Bowser can get over the stage and won't die to any of Chibi's AA options till late, which is a much better situation compared to a risky horizontal recovery situation.

I think the key for Bowser here is forcing Chibi to make poor choices to close the stock. Absolute patience is necessary for this to be a winning MU, otherwise you die. While Chibi may have more tools than Bowser to be successful in the MU, I'd actually put this 55:45 Bowser, primarily because mistakes for Chibi are extremely costly, but mistakes for Bowser are more forgiving. And given that Chibi is in for a long match unless he gets a Dair kill or good edgeguard, that's plenty of time to make mistakes.

Played some really fun chibi ditto matches with someone called Skailler today. It's nice to see other chibi robo players. Don't see too many.

I think he is definitely better than in v0.9b. However I have some trouble with this:

Is there a way to consistently snap to the ledge with his upB. Sometimes I can, other times I just go a bit too far which leaves me open to attacks.

I really really miss being able to angle his blaster shots downwards, especially in the air. It was such a useful tool. Not sure why is was changed. Any explanation?

Some of his attacks really should KO sooner.

Why hello there Chibi dittos are a blast, even if you failed to pick the only true stage for Chibi dittos GGs man. We Chibis are a rare breed indeed (but hey, we win tournaments with our "bottom 3" character)

BetaCopter is... iffy to sweetspot and requires very strict positioning and spacing. Just being able to sweetspot in the first place is a huge buff already though, considering that he literally could not do that in 0.9b at all. Really the only advice I can give you and anyone else is to practise that until you know by hard when to Up B in order to sweetspot.

You can still aim Air Blaster down, so Im not sure what you are getting at And not being able to aim down on the ground is something that has been requested since the character was introduced in 0.9b. Come on devs, give us free angling already


100% Agreed on the KO power, thats by far Chibis biggest hindrance as of now. Either that or his disgustingly awful disadvantage state.

Heya, MarkS! Glad to see you here. I actually had some good matches with you, back then when I used my other name, RagingThunder.


I think he is unaware of the fact that you can hold Air Blaster and proceed to angle downwards while shooting. Also, not many people know that Chibi has auto Air-Blaster in BETA, some don't even know that he can pocket projectiles, I don't blame them

You can still grab the ledge during the ending animation of Chibi's up-b, it's tricky, both for you and for your opponent. Your opponent may think that you are about to miss the sweetspot, when that's indeed not the case, giving you at least some time to come up with a punish.

Please forgive for straying from your competitive discussion, but can Chibi 'pick up' Master Hand's 'finger missiles'?

You don't have to worry, everyone was a casual player once

I completed classic mode again with Chibi-Robo just to confirm whether I was correct or not. I was indeed right - the answer is no. They just go right into Chibi. Chibi still has some bugs capturing projectiles of those that aren't playable characters. He even throws pocketed projectiles weirdly. Maybe he'll get fixed in the new update, which I believe is coming soon.

Thanks for checking! I really appreciate it! This being said, wouldn't it be real handy for Chibi to be able to pocket those things?

I can't seem to figure out what 's down-B does.

It's like Villager's Pocket, but can't grab items.

bump

Yes, its that time of the day again. Skailler ranting about Chibi, wee Or not quite actually. The Chibicord has brainstormed over the course of the few past days to try and make one "official" collaborative wishlist for Patch 1.0.3 - by the Chibi community for the Chibi community so to speak. I think it turned out pretty nicely, so here it is! Keep in mind that not neccessarily every single Chibi player agreed with every single one of these changes, but we rather went for a majority stance here. Also note that while getting every single of these changes at once would be sick without a doubt, that doesnt mean that we will riot if we do not get every single thing we said here in exact our way, or if a few (more) of those dont make it into the game at all. Probably. Below I will present our results, and below that I will use a neat little box to properly discuss these changes and try to make it clear why we want certain things the way we do.


Shoutouts go to everyone who participated in discussion, namely Drarky, Lil_Boonk, SwagSpooky, .jamie, cakefan, Kahila and myself.


"Official" Collaborative Chibicord Wishlist for Patch 1.0.3

• Up Air KB gets re-tooled to actually be a kill move. I think this one was by far the most obvious.
• Up Smash hitboxes restored to be in the middle of 0.9b and Beta Up Smash
• Forward Smash can no longer be teched mid-attack by grounded opponents
• While charging Down Smash, Chibi does not push opponents away anymore
• Back Air KB restored to make it a proper kill move again
• Fix Down B (this is going to be one heck of a long explanation)
• Back Throw cannot be DI'ed as much anymore
• Chibi now has a Zair
• Toothbrush revamped as a recovery move
• Chibi Copter is tweaked to have slightly more KB. Additionally the move is now a single strong hit throughout instead of a multihit.
• Slightly increased ground speed
• Telly confetti taunt

Not ordered by relevance btw.


Now onto the fun part where I explain all this stuff and try to not rant too much.

A quick question
How does Chibi's up-b work?
Seems very inconsistent with the height it gain, sometimes going not high at all and sometimes seemingly going form the bottom blastzone aaaall the way to beyond the top one.