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The Possibility of Last-Minute Clones 

Thoughts?
Possible, and wouldn't mind if it happened. 57%  57%  [ 30 ]
Possible, but a bad idea. 15%  15%  [ 8 ]
Not possible, but wouldn't mind if it was. 19%  19%  [ 10 ]
Not possible, and clones should stay far away from this game anyway. 9%  9%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 53

The Possibility of Last-Minute Clones 
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V-mon X wrote:
I feel like clones are highly unlikely as it has been stated multiple times that there is no release date announced so they don't have rush as much Nintendo [since they announce dates] to throw characters together quickly and slap them in the game. The characters so far are all highly unique and play differently from one another so it would take away a little from the roster's creativity to slap in stuff like Dark Pit and Lucina. Also they always change characters so they're not just a general character or a clone. Ichigo, Llyod, Sora, and Naruto are prime examples of them changing a character to make it's own unique style.

As for the whole clones are terrible argument; I personally think that as long a character has a different move set with some concepts taken from another character [ex. Falco and Wolf] then it's fine. When a character has the same exact move set, animations, and playing style except for one physic to the character changed [ex. Lucina] then I would rather not have them as character just make them a costume change.


I agree.
Personally I prefer Lucina to Dark Pit simply because she was there as an easy to play Marth.
Dark Pit is there because Sakurai felt the need to give him his own Final Smash.
Dr Mario is in Sm4sh because Melee Mario

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:41 pm

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I was honestly hoping that whole Dark Pit thing at the end of Palutena reveal trailer didn't mean anything but he is in... Doesn't really add anything to game other than being there.. I honestly think that if they made Dark Pit an alt costume and gave his special moves as custom moves at the start it would have no difference to fan appeal in the game.

I'm glad they did Dr. Mario to have melee Mario cause that's the best Mario. And SSF2 did a great choice picking that version base theirs off of over the F.L.U.D. one. [this is a personal opinion so try not jump at me saying how awesome it is or if I butchered the name cause I don't know if it's one or two d's.


Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:12 pm
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An interesting feature from Crusade that I think would fix the whole problem of "clones having a slot" would be this:
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As you can see in the image, if either Luigi or Samus are selected in the menu, an arrow icon shows up next to the character's portrait.
Selecting that arrow lets you choose in Luigi's case between Luigi and Weegee, while in Samus's case let's you choose between Samus and Zero Suit Samus.
While of course this feature it's awfully executed in the game (seriously, Weegee!?) it still gives the game the potential to feature clone character outside of the main roster.
While they still can appear via Random, tehy still don't use a slot in the game. This means that they can certainly add not originally intended characters (a.k.a, after the roster was locked) and well, the possibility to hide clones from those that prefer to see necomers and don't like clone characters.
Some examples for alternate characters:
-Mario/Dr. Mario
-Marth/Lucina
-Pikachu/Pichu (without backfire damage, of course)
Also, this would allow to introduce characters with lots of similarities to official Smash bros fighters such as Chrom, Paula or Princess Daisy to join in the game as playable.

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:39 pm

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That is an interesting idea however Samus and Zero Suit Samus both have their own slots now and this idea is the only one that this idea would have worked well although maybe Zelda and Sheik could use this idea in the next demo. The overall idea is not entirely needed as you could make these characters as alt costume for Peach if you want Daisy in and the official smash bros games does with the Koopalings. If the Dev team does decide to add in costume moves and a couple alts [very few as they would add a good amount to file size from I hear] then bam you have that clone Daisy people want.
Perhaps they could offer different packs of alts to download into the game after it is finished so an example would be when go into the game then click downloads a bunch of free alt packs appear such as Daisy, Pichu, and etc. This way people can decide if they want to put Daisy in the game by downloading her if you don't then you don't have to. This could be the same with clones they could post characters that act like clones for download and people who dread clones don't have to them..
Although if you are talking saving space on the character select then I guess it could come in handy if they do a good amount of cloning


Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
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The problem With what crusade has in ssf2 is that the file size would get gigantic lol

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:45 pm
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V-mon X wrote:
That is an interesting idea however Samus and Zero Suit Samus both have their own slots now and this idea is the only one that this idea would have worked well although maybe Zelda and Sheik could use this idea in the next demo. The overall idea is not entirely needed as you could make these characters as alt costume for Peach if you want Daisy in and the official smash bros games does with the Koopalings. If the Dev team does decide to add in costume moves and a couple alts [very few as they would add a good amount to file size from I hear] then bam you have that clone Daisy people want.
Perhaps they could offer different packs of alts to download into the game after it is finished so an example would be when go into the game then click downloads a bunch of free alt packs appear such as Daisy, Pichu, and etc. This way people can decide if they want to put Daisy in the game by downloading her if you don't then you don't have to. This could be the same with clones they could post characters that act like clones for download and people who dread clones don't have to them..
Although if you are talking saving space on the character select then I guess it could come in handy if they do a good amount of cloning

But Alternate costumes are already in Smash (Alph, Koopalings, Villagers).
What I mean, is create a clone character, similar to Fox/Falco in Melee, both shared the same moves, but their gameplays were completely different because of her stats.
Daisy could not work as a Peach alternate costume because both characters have completely different personalities, and considering that Peach's moveset highly relies on her personality, of course the alternate costume would not feel the same as the real deal.
Now you get it?
------------------
Btw, I forgot to mention that clones should only mimic someone from their same franchise, mostly because I don't want the whole Ganondorf debate to come again to another character.

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:51 pm

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Shiver-Star wrote:
V-mon X wrote:
That is an interesting idea however Samus and Zero Suit Samus both have their own slots now and this idea is the only one that this idea would have worked well although maybe Zelda and Sheik could use this idea in the next demo. The overall idea is not entirely needed as you could make these characters as alt costume for Peach if you want Daisy in and the official smash bros games does with the Koopalings. If the Dev team does decide to add in costume moves and a couple alts [very few as they would add a good amount to file size from I hear] then bam you have that clone Daisy people want.
Perhaps they could offer different packs of alts to download into the game after it is finished so an example would be when go into the game then click downloads a bunch of free alt packs appear such as Daisy, Pichu, and etc. This way people can decide if they want to put Daisy in the game by downloading her if you don't then you don't have to. This could be the same with clones they could post characters that act like clones for download and people who dread clones don't have to them..
Although if you are talking saving space on the character select then I guess it could come in handy if they do a good amount of cloning

But Alternate costumes are already in Smash (Alph, Koopalings, Villagers).
What I mean, is create a clone character, similar to Fox/Falco in Melee, both shared the same moves, but their gameplays were completely different because of her stats.
Daisy could not work as a Peach alternate costume because both characters have completely different personalities, and considering that Peach's moveset highly relies on her personality, of course the alternate costume would not feel the same as the real deal.
Now you get it?
------------------
Btw, I forgot to mention that clones should only mimic someone from their same franchise, mostly because I don't want the whole Ganondorf debate to come again to another character.


Yeah I guess they wouldn't exactly be clones the way I put it.. I honestly wouldn't mind clones to much however the fact that in order to do clones they would have to go over every sprite any edit makes it seem like it's highly unlikely for clones unless they really want a clone in. As much Daisy could be a an interesting clone... I think Mario has enough reps... Plus isn't that the expansion character thing to be able to play all these characters that aren't in the game [if it still is in].The whole screen thing to hide the fact that clones are in the games seems a little ridiculous can't lie to yourself that the person. As for Ganondorf I feel he is original enough now to be his own person especially with that side B that blows up your brains everywhere or brings you straight down to helix fossil [censoring] with him.


Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:22 pm
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Yeah, hiding the clones like that seems kind of silly, but kind of effective to give the feel that they're optional to play as.

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Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:33 pm
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Shiver-Star wrote:
Yeah, hiding the clones like that seems kind of silly, but kind of effective to give the feel that they're optional to play as.

I agree. This is one idea from Crusade that I like.

Luigi/Weegee was pretty silly, but if you ask me, using it with Ryu/Evil Ryu was very effective.

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:15 am

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Saikyoshi wrote:
Shiver-Star wrote:
Yeah, hiding the clones like that seems kind of silly, but kind of effective to give the feel that they're optional to play as.

I agree. This is one idea from Crusade that I like.

Luigi/Weegee was pretty silly, but if you ask me, using it with Ryu/Evil Ryu was very effective.


Weegee? That's pretty funny is this final smash staring at you to death?
The idea of hiding seems fine to me I don't mind either way with hiding or not hiding. The only thing is that I feel it's bad for the devs and people who made the clone. If a clone is added in and they have to hide it away then it feels kind disrespectful to the people that made. It's up to how the devs feel if their cool with it then I am too.


Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:50 pm
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V-mon X wrote:
Saikyoshi wrote:
Shiver-Star wrote:
Yeah, hiding the clones like that seems kind of silly, but kind of effective to give the feel that they're optional to play as.

I agree. This is one idea from Crusade that I like.

Luigi/Weegee was pretty silly, but if you ask me, using it with Ryu/Evil Ryu was very effective.


Weegee? That's pretty funny is this final smash staring at you to death?
The idea of hiding seems fine to me I don't mind either way with hiding or not hiding. The only thing is that I feel it's bad for the devs and people who made the clone. If a clone is added in and they have to hide it away then it feels kind disrespectful to the people that made. It's up to how the devs feel if their cool with it then I am too.

It's literally a character that uses overused and dated memes for his attacks.
He is pretty much the reason I can't enjoy Crusade as much as I do with SSF2. (That and the incosistent graphics)

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:54 pm
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Shiver-Star wrote:
V-mon X wrote:
Saikyoshi wrote:
Shiver-Star wrote:
Yeah, hiding the clones like that seems kind of silly, but kind of effective to give the feel that they're optional to play as.

I agree. This is one idea from Crusade that I like.

Luigi/Weegee was pretty silly, but if you ask me, using it with Ryu/Evil Ryu was very effective.


Weegee? That's pretty funny is this final smash staring at you to death?
The idea of hiding seems fine to me I don't mind either way with hiding or not hiding. The only thing is that I feel it's bad for the devs and people who made the clone. If a clone is added in and they have to hide it away then it feels kind disrespectful to the people that made. It's up to how the devs feel if their cool with it then I am too.

It's literally a character that uses overused and dated memes for his attacks.
He is pretty much the reason I can't enjoy Crusade as much as I do with SSF2. (That and the incosistent graphics)

Also, he's stiff as a board with hardly any mobility at all and a large amount of attack lag. His sealing gaze (Nspec) had potential to make him play uniquely, but not enough is done with that unique property (sacrificing his own mobility in exchange for the power to limit the opponent's) to make his playstyle stand out, and the character design as a whole could have been done far better. Yes, when Weegee could have been done better, somebody screwed up somewhere.

Weegee aside, let's look at Evil Ryu, an example of something like this done well. Any TFG fan will tell you how different the two are, so giving them the same slot and switching them via arrow was an effective way to incorporate the different playstyles without making the roster feel like "Ryu: The Game", like Smash 4 feels like "Pit: The Game".

As for making the devs feel bad, it will likely be the same one that made both the original and the clone, as the clone by definition copies the original's files, so I don't think that will be an issue. Someone like Lucina or Dark Pit would only be a matter of light sprite editing.

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Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:06 am

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Saikyoshi wrote:
Shiver-Star wrote:
V-mon X wrote:
Saikyoshi wrote:
Shiver-Star wrote:
Yeah, hiding the clones like that seems kind of silly, but kind of effective to give the feel that they're optional to play as.

I agree. This is one idea from Crusade that I like.

Luigi/Weegee was pretty silly, but if you ask me, using it with Ryu/Evil Ryu was very effective.


Weegee? That's pretty funny is this final smash staring at you to death?
The idea of hiding seems fine to me I don't mind either way with hiding or not hiding. The only thing is that I feel it's bad for the devs and people who made the clone. If a clone is added in and they have to hide it away then it feels kind disrespectful to the people that made. It's up to how the devs feel if their cool with it then I am too.

It's literally a character that uses overused and dated memes for his attacks.
He is pretty much the reason I can't enjoy Crusade as much as I do with SSF2. (That and the incosistent graphics)

Also, he's stiff as a board with hardly any mobility at all and a large amount of attack lag. His sealing gaze (Nspec) had potential to make him play uniquely, but not enough is done with that unique property (sacrificing his own mobility in exchange for the power to limit the opponent's) to make his playstyle stand out, and the character design as a whole could have been done far better. Yes, when Weegee could have been done better, somebody screwed up somewhere.

Weegee aside, let's look at Evil Ryu, an example of something like this done well. Any TFG fan will tell you how different the two are, so giving them the same slot and switching them via arrow was an effective way to incorporate the different playstyles without making the roster feel like "Ryu: The Game", like Smash 4 feels like "Pit: The Game".

As for making the devs feel bad, it will likely be the same one that made both the original and the clone, as the clone by definition copies the original's files, so I don't think that will be an issue. Someone like Lucina or Dark Pit would only be a matter of light sprite editing.


Yeah I guess they probably wouldn't mind. I think another question is what clones would we be likely to see if they do have them? I think Falco would be one [Luigi also if you considered him one] and maybe Kratos? Not to sure on him I feel like the scrapped him when the roster got changed. Other than these three I don't have clue on possible other clones.


Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:44 pm
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Lucas, Dr,Mario, Lucina, Toon Link, Pichu (without backfire), Ganondorf are possible Clone and Semi-clone characters.
Btw, Falco and Luigi are Semi-Clones.
I'm not gonna argue about Kratos, mostly because I don't know nothing about Tales of Symphonia.

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Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:55 pm

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Shiver-Star wrote:
Lucas, Dr,Mario, Lucina, Toon Link, Pichu (without backfire), Ganondorf are possible Clone and Semi-clone characters.
Btw, Falco and Luigi are Semi-Clones.
I'm not gonna argue about Kratos, mostly because I don't know nothing about Tales of Symphonia.


I could see Dr. Mario, Toon Link, and Gannondorf in now that I am reminded of them. Lucas and Pichu are two characters I don't honestly see them putting in but hey they got me with Game and Watch so yeah.... As for Lucina I feel that's a no until at least one more fire emblem character gets in.
Yes I know Falco and Luigi are semi-clones but are still considered clones by a decent amount of people. Don't know much either about Kratos just stated him because he as part of the old roster and I remember he was planned to be like Llyod... Don't take complete faithful on my words cause it was a long, long time since that dojo verision was out.


Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:19 pm
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