You could predict when an enemy will land after their jump, use that time to strike- and if they Up-B to avoid, they will be sitting ducks if you act quickly enough.(maybe another Grave Blade )

You guys are still talking about situational-theories though. Attempting those tactic in-match (offline) against a reasonably experienced player won't work like you say it will.

I'd hope Tempest-Cancels get fixed as it's the main thing that makes Lloyd so broken at the moment. The fact that it makes Rising Falcon and Sonic-Thrust auto-cancel on landing is crazy. It wasn't like that in v0.9a, so all the risk of doing the cancel is gone. His moves becomes extremely safe. Perhaps the glitch has something to do with the coding of Lloyd being able to perform Down-air into and from Up-special infinitely.

I'm sort of late to this, but has the fact that Grave Blade affects separate platforms (as long as they're level) been brought into the discussion? Like if you Grave Blade the left platform on Central Highway, it will hit someone on the middle platform. If you use it on top of the hut on Jungle Hijinx, it affects the leftmost side of the stage. Etc etc. I'm sure it's been addressed, but I still find it amusing and occasionally use it just to show people it's a thing.

Grave Blade is good for tech chases y'all

idk what you'd use it for outside of online matches and like you said above, catching people who don't know it affects other plats

I just finished playing Lloyd dittos with TAC3, and I'm honestly convinced Lloyd is babied to death. Sheik at the very least has to work for a variety of her followups. Lloyd... Not so much. Let's talk about some stuff. So, I don't really know why anyone would use his fthrow when his dthrow is universally better and can guarantee a zero to death on HIMSELF. At literally 0%, you can do: dthrow > da x3 (if I recall after three attempts it sends the opponent into tumble) > fair, lame out and gimp when you're forcing the opponent into an oki situation. It doesn't matter what direction you DI in (and before you quote me, I know you can't DI out of throws; I'm referring to the window after the throw) because there is very little (and situational) opportunity handed to you to get out of it. Reverse hitboxes... Lloyd has way too many of those in general. You could just jump around and pressure with bair on plats, rinse and repeat. Also because of these traits, Grave Blade is an inferior move compared to say, dthrow. It does a better job guaranteeing what you want when you want it. I find a lot of this overall depressing.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at comparing down throw and Grave Blade. The two serve completely different purposes, no? It seems to me like comparing Melee Fox's shine and lasers. Both great moves, but for completely different reasons.

Because it's much easy to land a Grab-Dthrow than trying to do some elaborate setup into Grave Blade? Because both moves give you the same type of follow-up opportunity.

I don't know why there aren't more people exploiting Lloyd in online play

-Fast moves with little endlag, making them exceedingly hard to punish
-Disjointed hitboxes
-Range on attacks
-Auto-canceling moves

Lloyd actually takes a bit of work and execution to be effective. Unlike Ichigo, Sora, DK, and Link.

Lloyd dash attacks into side B is too good. Bad thing is that it's really hard to do without auto dash, and with auto dash it's a lot harder to do fsmash.

I take back what I said about Lloyd not take work or execution.

I just fought incredibly straight-forward Lloyd player online. He didn't even use Tempest-Cancelling and the match-up still felt really dumb. Demon-Fang zoning too strong. Tiger-Blade > Rising Falcon is much safer than I original thought. Goddamn that glitch. And he pretty much just spammed, Grab, Up-tilt, and Up-smash. And if he missed, he would do 5-6 times in-a-row until he got it.

Too bad the guy rolled like a Miltank. Zelda continues to be the best character to punish bad habits.

And pretty much Mega Man, Naruto, Lloyd, Sora all have a really big problem with strong defensive play that encourages slow-paced play. This needs to be altered because make playing against them not even fun. Ichigo and DK aren't defensive, they just have really strong and safe offensive game.

This is basically it. Also, I have a feeling that he was the same Lloyd who consistently gives me problems.

What kinda problems?

Lloyd being able to throw out quick and very hard-to-punish moves constantly with little to no negative consequences. Fair, dash attack, and uair come to mind.

I main Lloyd right behind Sheik, but even I think there could be something done to clean up his play style a little bit. He seems like the only character who can be offensive at every second of a match, and pretty much all of his moves are low-to-no risk. I have a lot of fun playing him, but I could see it being very frustrating for people.