The Usmash uncharged buff seems like something that would seriously help BM at lot, since the move is still very strong.

Yes, BM struggles to kill way too hard in this game in contraste with almost everyone else that isn't named Sora, and I feel like it's fair enough to remove the jank part of his moveset (Stop being ridiculous even if uncharged, Haste) in exchange for a better kill power.

I've discovered a great new way to rack up percent as Black Mage!

This Technique is rather simple, yet surprisingly effective! It basically goes like this

Uthrow > Fullhop Dair > Fastfall > Regrab

The catch of this is to jump out of the uthrow and land the earliest hitbox of dair to send your opponent back down. This part of the combo is DI dependent, so you will have to watch your opponent's DI from the uthrow and react accordingly. However, you can hi opponents with the dair sweetspot and activate Death if you are fast enough to catch your opponent afterwards

The Fastfall part is to ensure that you can regrab your opponent before they land on the ground, thus, they have no way to tech the dair to escape. From this point you can do this combo again, or perhaps mix it up with another uthrow followup or a dthrow.

Now this combo is very dependent on who your opponent is controlling. As far as ive tested, this is true on all of the floaties at very low percent, Jigglypuf gets out at around 20%, while you can keep this going on a character like until 70%. Another catch is that against characters with large hitboxes, such as , at low percents you can shorthop dair instead of full hop, its a lot simpler this way, yet you will still need to fast fall in order to catch him in time

This combo however works the least on fastfallers, and to be specific. At low percents you are better off doing the upthrow chaingrab against these characters. At mid percents it becomes a good option against , but its more difficult to do the earlier you proceed to start the combo. Due to 's fall speed, by the time he gets to mid-high percents, the dair sends him downward too fast to be regrabbed, however if the misses the tech, you can jab reset him.

Let me know if you discover anything with this technique, I hope this is a good combo you'll implement in your BM play.

Something to add is that if their SDI is not on point and they're a bigger character, uthrow -> FF or normal nair -> regrab can often work. Using this in conjunction with chaingrabs or dair can really mess your opponent up. Also, I think perhaps against Fox or Falcon you can do uthrow -> fair -> something.

I use this a lot Corvid, but I don't at early percentages because half the time, the opponent rolls away. I just Dthrow them at 0%.

The problem with dthrow is that with proper DI it doesn't work on most of the cast.

Yeah, the main selling point of using DThrow is really because of the damage it can do by itself, although the positional advantage also helps since it forces your opponent to get himself away of BM, which is always a good thing in my book.

Also nice discover Corvid! I didn't thought about that setup before, I'll toy with it for a while to see what I can get.

Oh, and random BM fact of the day: FThrow can kill at around 80% on the platforms of ToS thanks to his KB, so keep that in mind! Although to be fair ToS IS probably the best stage for BM in most cases.

Well I've been absent for a bit. Just finished this video after recording a lot of replays I had. http://youtu.be/gO5Sf7CjAMk It showcases a lot of good Black Mage stuff like down throw chain grabs, meteor walls, death shenanigans and more! Based off what Draky posted on the beta changes, we should be okay and remain a potent force in the upcoming patch! I'm hella excited

Black Mage "jank" removal Beta wishlist:

- Uair has real frame data like an actual move. Pretty sure this one is already covered. Woot.
- Dthrow no longer does 21% by itself. Also already fixed.
- Haste no longer picks up prone opponents.
- Meteor priority and knockback reduced. It would also be super cool if the projectile hit up instead of away, too.
- Dash attack only has armour until he hits the ground.
- Ftilt frame data made reasonable.
- Prone getup attack knockback decreased.

Yay.

All of those changes are fine, but haste actually doesn't pick up prone opponents off the floor. If the line is over you when you start an input for an action like roll or getup attack, it will catch you on the first frame of vulnerability which looks like it picks you up off the floor unless the hurtbox for your character is that big (DK). You can miss the tech and lay on the floor until the end of haste's sound effect and that's a good indication of when it's safe to roll away cause then the hitbox won't catch you on any vulnerable frames. Send me a msg for more info

Ah, interesting. I assumed that Haste picked up all prone opponents, as I main Link and he suffers from that. In fact, I went and checked the whole cast to make sure, and he is definitely not alone. Link, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Samus, Ness, Pikachu, Sonic, Peach, Wario, Meta Knight, Bomberman, Black Mage himself, Jigglypuff, Tails, Yoshi, Lloyd, Chibi-Robo and Sora all get caught while lying down. So in reality, only ten characters out of the game's twenty-nine can avoid getting picked up by standing Haste while prone on the same level as Black Mage. However, every character can get hit by Haste while Prone if the purple line passes over them. Sheik, Zelda, Ichigo, Naruto, Goku, Mario, Marth, Captain Falcon, Fox and Mega Man are all just lucky that their prone position hurtboxes are small enough not to get picked up while Black Mage is level with them.

My complaint then, I must clarify, is about the mechanics behind Haste. It should be mechanically impossible to pick up a prone character with a command grab, regardless of hitbox interactions. This is what I would like to see changed. Same goes for Wario's Chomp.

Tru dat Sa-v. Prone characters should be immune to any "grab" move of any kind.

My BM changelist (please state your opinions)

Buffs

-Buff power on Fsmash a bit
-Buff damage on Fsmash from 15% to 18%
-Make his Fsmash hit multiple times (Like 4 times)
-Buff Usmash power a bit (buff it to like Zelda Usmash power)
-Make Dsmash make you stay frozen for a bit longer (And buff the damage it does by like 5%)
-Make Dsmash faster
-Make UpB have a hitbox when reappearing
-Make UpB like 1.25x faster
-Make Dtilt have more reach
-Make Ftilt reflect projectiles (inb4 this is too op, and it needs to be nerfed)
-Remove the Fox lazer UpB death sentence thing
-Give Bair a bit more reach
-Make his throws all faster

Nerfs

-The ftilt's hitbox and speed need to be nerfed a little please..
-Make Fsmash have a shorter duration
-Haste already got nerfed, so I won't say anything (although the new haste could make so really smexy combos)
-Meteor shouldn't have such huge knockback... And make it a bit slower.
-REMOVE THE STUPID ARMOR ON THE DASH ATTACK


EDIT : Make his getup attack on the ground faster, and nerf its power.

1 huge complaint. why remove his dash attack super armour? its meant to catch you off guard if they don't realize your going for it. if you remove the super armour they will just react and hit you thus making the move horrible. plz I know someone pwnd u as but plz don't ruin my main

It lasts way too long, they should at least decrease the amount of time it has armor for.