For me that's debatable
They're really good Ness Sprites, but not only are they mostly Open Source (Spriters Resource has them, for instance) but they're also the only Ness Sprites which leads to a "Sonic Battle Scenario" where they're the only sprites really ever used (Even Crusade uses the same sprites)
Now before you shout at me "But Bedoop, they're different! Ya friccin moron, go check your darn facts!"
I dunno about you but even though SSF2 and Crusade have their own unique edits from the Ness Sprites, they still look like the same sprites to me in terms of everything that isn't their palettes

I see the point you're trying to get, but Ness-to-Pit is probably a bit of...not the best comparison. Pit has a lot of clothing and detail whilst Ness is quite the simple fellow.
A better comparison would be comparing to . Both are really simple characters, but Bomberman is a lot more detailed in terms of Shading and Expressions and whatnot.

I mean the most expression you'll get out of Ness is either a =) or a =0
Ness isn't really that expressive...

^This^
If you stop to look at some of Kirby's animations that are custom-made, his hands/feet look very...strange.
His hands look more like bubbles just floating at his body. It's super strange.

I feel like I'm the only person who prefers Marth facing backwards? Looks more sophisticated, as a Marth would tend to be like.

^^THIS^^
You're a hero to us all

Because they took out the Fanta Costume and the joke won't work if there's no Final Fanta Sea Man

am i not cool

There's still a gorgeous orange one (that looks like Simirror from Kirby) so there's another falvor of Fanta

But I don't want Strawberry
I need the Grape

Nah most people would agree with the majority of what you said.
Just try not to use that blinding red text, it's a bit of a strain to the eyes

Yeah, and it reminds us of the last guy who used red text. Trust me, you don't wanna be associated with him

This is probably a long shot, but it would be cool if there were a shortcut to the graphical settings menu from the Stage Select.
I like some stages with effects, and some without.
Take Yoshi's Story, for example. The animations there are great, but...

...there's a sense of - height and isolation? I don't know - that I like about the effectless version... yeah, that's it. Because the remaining wave stays low instead of bobbing up and down, the stage feels higher up than otherwise, and I think that's cool for some reason.
And then, of course, there's cases where some stages would have relatively low-power effects while others are GPU-slayers.

^I agree with this.

I have said this a million times, but Bandana Dee really needs a moveset overhaul.

After talking to Kirb-Star a bit, I agree that BDee could do with a couple of changes. Not nearly as many as he feels should happen - though I respect his opinion - but a couple.

Yeah, this is a quick rundown of what I ranted:

The issue here is that literally all of your suggestions are 'Why isn't this x move from x game???' or "This move doesnt function like it does in the Kirby series????" without going into depth about how it may help make the character more fun or solid to play as. That's not how we work. We place a lot of emphasis on representing characters accurately and I still stick with the stance that we've done so in a unique way where Bandana Dee is concerned. All of your suggestions seem to stem from 'why doesn't he have all moves from that one game?????' and if you look at Smash you'll notice that bar maybe 2 examples no character has a moveset composed entirely out of moves and attack from their home series, mostly aiming to keep the general flow of a character intact. That'd make for poor, stiff design anyway.

I originally didn't really want to get into this discussion with you about this again but you're really vocal about this, so I'm just going to go ahead and suggest you cut your losses where Bandana Dee is concerned. We're not going to change the moveset at this point in time. It's likely that very drastic changes won't really be made in general given how well the moveset has been received by people who've actually played the character. We've explained multiple times to you what the design of Bandana Dee is ment to convey and you're allowed to disagree with it but every time you bring this up you act as if we just did "whatever haha funny xd" for the character which is kind of annoying.

I agree on Steven on how the moves work, but Kirb-Star is right in the aesthetic aspect

B-air could be resprited but still work the same/similarly

Same goes for replacing the sparks in F-smash with water

Wario's pummel happened, so... there's still a chance... I think?

I've slept it over, and did some thinking. And a bit of research when it comes to what I haven't played.

• Back Thrust would give him another safe option in the air, having longer range and inherently a disjoint, and since one of your problems with BD's three jumps is his aerial prowess, I don't think you'd like that, KS.
• The water in Parasol Swing was only in Return to Dream Land and after, not "absolutely" every appearance of the attack. RtDL may be BD's most prominent appearance, but it's not his first appearance, and the attack itself has been around much longer. So while it would be a nice nod, it's not a necessary one.
• You told me before that your problem with Wave Beam was not the move's presence, but rather placement, believing it should be swapped with his side special, because it meant that Kirby would get the Beam ability rather than Spear. After thinking on this... He doesn't get a Sword ability after inhaling Link or a Yo-Yo ability after inhaling Ness despite having the hats. And to stick to relations to his home series, he also couldn't use Mach Tornado when wielding Galaxia in Amazing Mirror despite being able to do so after inhaling Meta Knight.
• I still don't really like his Down Special being another Falcon Kick/Power Thrust/Rising Falcon, and the absence of Multispear Attack when, according to you, it was sprited, does seem odd. But hey—I don't have to like everything.
• Sharing a forward/back throw with Kirby was probably to, A. reflect those moves' popularity, especially forward, or B. mirror Meta Knight (who has Kirby's Up/Down throws). An aspect that I don't particularly like but I understand the reasoning behind.

I have nothing to say about the rest, which ranges from personal preference to nitpicking to other aspects of the game that you don't care about but most of us here do.

So while I agree that he's not perfect, I think he's fine.

My complain about B. Dee having 3 jumps is that there's absolutely no reason he should have them. Sure it makes him more unique, but hey, unique=/= good.
My reasoning behind the move being changed was with him only having 2 jumps like everybody else.

That's info you got from the wiki, and it's pretty flawed.
Look at this video:

Looks and sounds like water to me.

Okay, that's a fair point. Spear still should be angleable, though.

Neither do I, my friend.

Yeah well, MK gets a pass because he's a veteran, his moves were simply traced from the official games + the move was just ported over from Kirby's when developing him in Brawl. B. Dee gets no pass because he is a newcomer, and a character that started as a sprite, so they could have taken any liberties instead of just copying someone else's.


Yeah well, excuse me for not having played an unreleased game, nor being a dev to have access to the game, nor having 8782 subs more to reach the required 10000 subscribers in youtube nor being able to travel to USA to play the game at Smash Con because of money issues.
I can only write stuff about this character based on what I've seen in videos/streams. And pretty much the reason why I'm overall angry at this character it's because it's been the only new Kirby-related content we have received since 2013 in this game (stage revamps don't count, after all we've kept the same number of Kirby stages since friggin 2011, it's not easy being an autistic guy that has dedicated his entire life to this franchise's fanbase.) Doesn't help you guys just keep adding more and more to the Beta when in reality, I'm pretty sure this version would have been pretty solid if you guys had stopped adding content in mid-2016 and focused on polishing the game and leaving the rest of the planned stuff to the final version.
The train of time only goes in one direction, so you guys might as well keep going until you guys find it reasonable to release. I've already given up all hope on this game.

First my costumes get rejected and now this, haha.

Rage mechanic (it could be toggleable)
Shield angling (You could do that by pressing the directions of the C-Stick).

Tbh, the only thing I agree with from Kirb-Star is that Fsmash should emit water. Other than that, it doesn't need any changes, because changes would completely change his playstyle (most likely for the worse). His current playstyle seems like he's Kirby if he was geared towards offense and could use projectiles. I'll cover each change you suggested one by one and explain why they're already good:
An infinite jab with that much range is not something we want. We don't want another Meta Knight.
You're right about Fsmash.
Bair gives him a reliable and balanced kill move, which is something he seems to lack for the most part. If you replaced it with another spear attack, it'd either have too much range and not kill or have too much range for a kill move, making it broken. Since Bair is supposed to function as a reliable kill option, taking it away would change and nerf Dee considerably.
Kirby's and Dee's playstyles in SSF2 are centered around strong air game and good multihit attacks comboing into eachother spectacularly. Making Dair a slow, linear, single hit move would go against his playstyle.
His Dash attack forces enemies into the air while bringing himself into the air. That's a great tool for his playstyle and it makes his great air game even better due to it increasing the amount of situations the opponent will find themselves in the air with Dee.
Neutral special kinda has to be Wave Beam, since Steven's idea is the spear but being able to fold out as a parasol and the hilt of Spear being the Beam Rod to represent all Dee/Doo abilities throughout the Kirby Franchise, and we can't represent Beam any better way than using its two most basic attacks. Also, it gives Dee a projectile and a great combo tool.
Kirby has 5 midair jumps in Super Smash Bros because in Super Star, Helpers only had 5 midair jumps before their jumps became small and insignificant, and Kirby couldn't fly upwards as quickly after he moved his arms 5 times. Him having 3 midair jumps is a nod to Helpers not being able to "fly" as well as Kirby, as well as a balancing decision made to make sure Dee's air game isn't too overpowering.
Up Special is also a balancing decision. It's to make sure Dee has a weakness (Recovery and gimp game).
Down Special shouldn't really have much startup lag, but it's functionality being similar to Falcon Kick is actually genius in my opinion.

Steven, I can't understand the reasoning behind Dee's throws at all. I understand Back throw being the Throw ability, but I don't understand why you would give either one to him. Could you please explain it?