Then you would still have problems with Stop abuse over platforms and the like, and you would have it be a crazy good edgeguard tool. Run off ledge -> charge stop -> dair, fair, or fsmash would be ridiculously good.

it has 14 frames of startup not including the charge. that's almost as much as falcon punch. really guys?

That would be good.

Stop needs a better hit-box as well. It shouldn't last throughout the entire animation, just when the circle grows of to its full size. And not just a big square around the entire circle. The hit-box is incredibly disjoint making it difficult to judge the distance of the attack. It should really be more like this:


Would also make Stop more punishable from above and below.

i don't think getting rid of the corner disjoint is necessary but i do agree that the hitbox being out for 12 (!!!!!!!) frames is nuts so i'll fix that

Charged down smash should be more of a pushing attack, with much less vertical KB., slightly taller, and have more speed.
It would be used more, and... Well... It would be used more.

If all the smashes were more powerful when fully charged, I bet people would have a good reason to use them more often.

I, in general am not saying he needs it though.

Thundaga(Fsmash) is pretty strong as is, but Firaga and Blizzaga are very situational if not useless. Although I do tend to use Blizz. to approach on the ground.
:\ And I use Blizz. much more often than Fira., so...

It be good to fix the the disjoints because it prevents Black Mage hitting grounded opponents with Stop from at the apex of his full-jump. It would also make it so he would not be able to hit recovering opponents who's going straight for the ledge. The disjoint combined with fact the hit-box has so much reach below Black Mage, when you're in a situation where you're below the ledge, some character have to aim for it. Stop will beats-out the hit-boxes and hand-reaches of practically every Up-special. That gives Black Mage a free Dair to gimp. And Black Mage's normals are mostly made-up of low angle hitting moves to set this up.

I'll play anyone with BM and not touch Stop a single time and still give them a good run for their money. haha PM me if you want it

Eh?

I believe that I have discovered how to Meteor Cancel. It can be done in the air or on the ground. But all instances must have BM in the air while starting Meteor.
http://imgur.com/Zy4Bkto
EDIT: Omg! After doing this I can't NOT meteor cancel ;-;

Haha I thought you meant canceling downward momentum after a meteor smash, not a literal METEOR cancel lol

The question isn't really whether BM needs Stop (spoiler: he doesn't), but whether it over-centralizes his edgeguarding, killing, and approach around that one move.

I like the idea of just making the hitbox last less long. I think having it as a momentum stop is a bad idea, because it completely nullifies it as an approach. I think if the move was more punishable, it would be more situational and become one tool of many rather than the best way to approach by far. I don't think the corner disjoint is a bad thing: there's really nothing that bad about having moves that hit from a full hop IMO, although the deceptiveness of its hitbox can be annoying. I think the main thing is that the length makes it hard to dodge and punish, and if it was shortened I don't think anything else needs to be changed.

You can charge a Dsmash, run in and use a jump Meteor(Dspec) to approach. Its pretty effective