It also seems useful when coming back to the stage, because it's a lot easier to approach the stage with BBM's bair than his other aerials. Something like midair jump -> RDAR -> bair -> uspecial might be super nice. For the other stuff, isn't just turning around more efficient?

I know DK gets a lot more mileage out of this with his down b because he receives no lag from it

Oh my god... That's nuts. Hopefully that detonate buff you think is coming in beta is actually true. Imagine having less lag on it like on DK's level.



Oh yeah, that returning to stage thing is a really good point. Bair has less endlag than fair as well so it's not as risky

As for turning around being more efficient, in my experience trying to quickly turn with BBM while grounded usually results in him leaping instead of turning in place due to his initial dash frame, mkaing the RAR impossible for me. Also when RDAR-bairing offstage you carry a good amount of momentum you probably wouldn't have from a simple walk turnaround or perfect pivot bair. Sorry if that's not very clear lol

If nothing else it's a styling option but I really see competitive use.

Reverse fair

lol Can you actually hit that consistently? Or was that an accident. Had to watch a few times to see what happened

yea, its not the hard if you practice it. The window for the reverse fair is quite lenient

Cool, I'll check it out in training

on another note...

Most chars get a dtilt and a dash attack. Why do I get a dtilt that resembles a dash attack and an unusable piece of sh#t for an actual dash attack? Dtilt doesn't even have much priority... It's a pretty good move but why do other characters get two usable moves (a good DA and usable dtilt or vice versa... or both good... Naruto...) to Bomberman's one decent move? Why is he so subpar in general? He has some really good options but even more really awful ones. Why is Usmash not a killer until like 110%+ unless on a floatie? Why are fsmash, dsmash, ftilt, dair, getup attack and ledge attack not viable options without a strict hard read? Why is my dash attack never an option ever? Why do I have to spam bombs and fair and bair to hardly even compete with these characters that have a slew of crazy good tilts and killmoves and approach options? I barely have anything and feel that I have to abuse my character's good traits, only to not even get by half the time. He's still the funest on the roster to me and I'll continue to main him and try to improve but I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. Please polish this character devs ;-; Nerf the things that are too good about him like his grab speed, buttgrab(his grab hits behind him), fthrow, bombs, whatever else needs nerfing (I think those are his only truly good traits sadly enough) and buff his tilts, nair, and smashes slightly. Not a huge buff just slight adjustments. Less endlag on certain moves, slightly more kill power or startup on others... He needs more options

EDIT: He also has almost no good shield pressure or poking options. I wish fsmash or dsmash did more shield knockback or shield damage or something

its mostly bbm s***

double post because the power of the man cant hold me down

here's some bomb oddities and s*** because i had these recordings laying around and i wanted to do something with them
http://gfycat.com/LegalAnimatedHoneyeater
http://gfycat.com/WelcomeDownrightCow
http://gfycat.com/SlowFoolhardyCirriped

second gfy is actually pretty useful, although situational
it's also a bug that happens with some projectiles (sora's neutral special for example)
pretty interesting stuff

Here's a bomb strategy that's been working well for me;

As soon as the game starts, get 1 bomb directly into the center. (S bombs are my style but if you can get a bigger bomb there, it will be more effective for the psychological terror you're about to ensue onto your opponent) This will ensure that they are cautious when approaching the center of the stage for as long as the bomb is there.

From that point, choose a side of the stage and begin evenly spreading 3 more of your bombs to cover that side the best you can, from center to edge. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect spacing on the bombs, it just has to look threatening so that your foe will stay on his side. You've created your red zone. He will be wary of approaching, and if he does end up in the bomb field wait for the right time and detonate to rack up serious damage and make him even more afraid to approach next time your red zone is up.

If you've been counting, you've only used 4 bombs so far. The 5th bomb goes slightly ahead of the one in the center. This bomb should be on "his side" of the field and you should essentially have control of about 60% of the stage. This does a few things;

1. Invades his space even more and pushes him further back into the edge.
2.Gives you an option to kick a bomb into his side (forcing him to act) without risking the integrity of the red zone. If he acts aggressively and rushes when the bomb is kicked toward him, you still have 4 bombs covering your entire side. Don't panic.
3.Limits his roll and tech options severely. Controlling 100% of the stage with bombs is a risky strategy sometimes because the opponent will lose fear of the bombs and have no second thoughts about rushing into your space or rolling/teching in whatever direction he pleases. If you leave him a clear area, his mind will naturally tell him "Run to the clear spot!" "Roll into the clear spot!" "Tech into the clear spot!" etc. You can use this to your advantage for hard reads. Every time pressure is applied, where is he going? The clear spot. Punish accordingly. If he tries to be sneaky and roll into the bomb field... He just rolled into a bomb field. lol Make him afraid to do it again

With soft platforms, I've found that it's best to leave all of your bombs on one side of the platforms. So, if you put one bomb on the far left of a platform, put bombs on the far left of ALL the platforms. Use your remaining bombs to cover the ground of the side of your choice. This once again limits his rolling and teching options on platforms. It'll take practice to punish but in an ideal scenario your opponent should either roll away from the bomb and catch an aerial to the face or roll directly into the bomb and eat that instead. Reaction time is key because if he rolls into the bomb and you don't pop in time, he can shield and the strategy is lost. If anything, when you feel you've reacted too slowly on the tech, don't pop. Just let him shield and pressure him out of that.

Contributing to the anti-BBM meta:

The way to counter strategies that depend on stage control is to just eat the damage you might get instead of letting BBM get stage control, which will surely translate to something. For characters like Fox with bad full-hop approaches, you can still just pressure BBM, even with a bomb in the center of the stage. Mixing in a few dash-dances every now and then will help dull your opponent's reaction time to your approaches, and once you get in it's very hard to make you leave.

Be insane against BBM. As Huey demonstrated above, the "best option" is to tech, roll, jump, etc., into spots that don't have Bomb coverage. With the exception of Bombs that will kill you upon detonation, be crazy! (Even if the bomb will kill you, sometimes be crazier!). If they have 5 bombs, are they really going to cover tech away with a small Bomb that does middling percent and just lets you tech in place and continue fighting, but erases all their stage control? Just try to avoid dying from tech-chases (which are nearly always worth the detonation) or reads, but otherwise it's better to get hit by Bombs (assuming BBM can't follow up with something bad) than it is to get hit by BBM himself. On a side note, I've seen people try and get clever with reading spot dodges near Bombs. It's a good option if you drop a shield and can almost see your opponent decide to detonate it, but beware getting read and looking like an idiot.

Absolutely. Then once I hit you away I'd just replant again. It takes about 5 seconds with no enemy on the field

For the record everything he said is true. The secret to beating a Bomberman is to not give a damn about the bombs and just do it. Don't be reckless of course, but don't just let me do my thing while you just stand around hoping for a bad detonation. Force one yourself or just plain ignore them. That's why any Bomberman player needs to figure out how to win the neutral with no bombs. If a player like TCS has that kind of game plan with a speedy character like Fox, the game is likely yours to lose unless you have a solid no bombs Bomber

5 seconds is a long time to replant with an enemy coming after you!

Eh, at mid %s fair and bair do enough knockback to at least set up a few bombs and get the process started. It is a more stressful time and less of an advantage but a few fairs and bairs and you'll have your setup back in no time. At high % it sometimes takes me one fair and I can get all my bombs back down.

You're right though, once he pops the bombs and loses stage control, if he's not following up, you better get in his face and make it as hard as possible for him to regain his control. Never just let a Bomberman just walk freely and plant bombs but be wary because if I see someone trying to dash in while I'm spreading bombs, I'll just detonate whatever I have down, bair, and repeat the planting process. Don't be baited.