her upb enhances your jump though so save your jump until you're done flipping and then jump-upb

At least it's got a hitbox, so you can actually hit anyone who's ledge camping to steal the ledge...

Disagree with this if you want but, I think for when does her down b, only pressing the attack or special button should bring out the kick instead of both imo.

Yeah, not quite sure why people suddenly think Zamus can't recover. Up-B has a large range and is very challenging to edge guard; also, tethering allows for rapid offensive getups/ledge play. The trick is that the window you have of getting Up-B to grab ledge is relatively small and unforgiving, so new players will feel like she can't recover. But as it's been stated, flip jump >>>> double jump when off stage! For any character, you always save that jump if you can! ZSS makes that paramount.

Her new tools make her pretty savage at wracking damage and finishing stocks. Love how she feels with speed and ease of play. Her moves connect WAAAAY better this time around.

An interesting fact that not a lot of people know is that Samus is trans

Not*

Imo, her down b kick needs to be a lot shorter so it doesn't lead to more SDs.

This is probably mostly the reason why she can't often recover with up b (or even side b) and go off stage and do crazy cool stuff as much as she can in smash 4.

I also think her up smash might need a little bigger hitbox so other people can't just n-air from above and still hit her while she still has her up smash out.

Edit: But again yeah, pressing attack should be the kick ONLY after a down b imo, so pressing up b doesn't lead to a kick after down b to SD.

That's just my opinion.

wtf

this is agreeable as the way the buffer is now.

Yeah, just ignore that little larger hitbox on up smash part

Ok, now after re-reading my posts, I think if these changes were made to ZSS, she might not need boost kick.

I really am starting to like her current up b right now which is a good move if your under plat-forms and reaches to the top plat form of battle field.

I can attempt to do a ZSS ladder with her but ssf2 version lol.

and like Tson said the up b sends you a little higher too.

Her up air being a kill move is pretty cool (I actually am going to lab out what % her up air on top plat form of battle field can KO most characters at).

So people may not like this up b, but I think this up b is very useful, just know how to use it right.

Honestly I hope this up b stays.

Also her side b is so quick, I love that (and really hope that stays that way tbh).

Her down tilt can start combos (sometimes into grab into f-air or just d tilt f-air).

Her f smash is REALLY nice and can hit the back of her so I think that's a safe move.

Her n-air is also good to keep approaches away (at-least on platforms).

I think her d-air can start something (not to sure yet), but of course I mostly have a habit spamming that which gets me off stage into blast zone, hmm I don't think it needs a change tho, does it?

F smash is good for edge guarding.

Neutral b and down smash are good moves for edge guarding to setup a kill.

Her dash attack is great imo

There's so many creative things you can do with this character, and SHE SO MUCH FUN (at-least for me).

Like I'm trying to see if I can jab once then grab cause jabbing 2 times into grab doesn't work on most people i've fought (i'm probably try that again but walk/run up grab instead of just standing there doing the grab lol).

She gets cool things off grabs, just don't spam grab though lol.

She could use a resprite to show more T H I C C :^)

I mained ZSS in 0.9b. I haven't played much of her in beta, but I can tell you that up-b used to combo into literally anything. With good DI reads and dash cancel up-b, you could literally 0-death heavies with utilt>up-b>grab>uthrow>up-b>grab>rinse and repeat, maybe throw in dsmash to avoid staling. Up-b doesn't seem as good (I'm sorry, all I've got is qualitative), but it still combos into anything AFAIK.

1 thing I wanna know is how does ZSS beat DK when rolls are absolutely useless against him and when he's on you (most rolls are probably useless in this game against characters with grabs who don't have blind spots), it's kinda hard to get him off (unless maybe if you're on ground you can maybe d tilt) but yeah, when DK is on her she has a lot of trouble, sometimes even when he's not that close, his range is annoying to fight against.

But he does seem a bit easy to edge guard.

Any tips for that MU if anyone knows?

Edit: Btw just found out, if you walk off stage WITHOUT jumping, and you up b, you lose all your jumps (that explains why you go higher when you up b), be careful of that.

Use disjoints to your advantage, keep DK above you, and edgeguard with dair and dsmash.

I wish I could see the hitbox for d-air cause idk if i can use it right on the ledge instead of attempting to do it off stage and trying to get back on.

ZSS outranges every character that does not have a projectile. Any one hit can lead to a long combo. Don't get in too close, and keep DK in the air. Don't get grabbed. You can camp really well with side-b, and holding side-b pulls the opponent in as a mixup and combo starter. Dsmash>fsmash, or just plain fsmash, is great for edgeguarding if DK recovers low. If he recovers high, up-b or super jump up-b.

As for your edit, that's only true with tap jump on. If you up-b while jumping, you do a super jump (which was deservingly nerfed from 0.9b). If you have tap jump, that means walking or jumping off the edge, followed by releasing up and then using up-b will always burn your super jump.

EDIT: Instead of rolling OOS, try shnair OOS.