brb gonna force myself to love project m

My point is that you need to make a distinction between "Pikachu is successful in Melee" and "Axe is successful in melee". By any objective standard, Pikachu has been an incredibly unsuccessful character, especially considering how highly rated he was even before he got moved up. He has had one player do ANYTHING with the character. This player happens to be doing well now, but he is the only player to ever accomplish a single thing. Samus very clearly has the tools as she has ALWAYS had a top player until the last few years, but her main representatives have largely stopped playing the game or faded away. This doesn't suddenly make the character worse, or mean the character can't perform. It just means the character lacks a top level representative, though it still has several high level ones. A single top level representative doesn't really say much about a character aside from the character not being absolutely useless. If anyone had been able to even get to bracket level with Pikachu aside from Axe it would be a different story, but as-is he's just an very exceptional player. Arguing about character attributes is subjective and also not necessary when it's so abundantly clear that PIkachu's tools are lacking compared to Samus' from an objective look at the data.

You can talk about how great Pikachu is all you want, but that doesn't really follow when no one outside of 1 player in the game's history has been able to do anything with him.

Woah s***

What are its limitations? D'you have a link where they talk about this somewhere?

i just had a bit of an argument with some of the people on the video (damn that was a stupid-ass idea)
someone mentioned that the project m developers should replace actual nintendo devs
i had a lot of people leaning towards me for that. then a project m developer replied and disagreed.
well, i lose.

No, you were right. That guy is borderline delusional.

I read that and figured it was you.

Smash bros would be a joke if they developed it from scratch. They're okay for the most part at what they do, but a lot of their design choices on already existing characters are silly, i'd hate to see them build a character from the ground up.

if you want me to be entirely honest i don't have the slightest clue if you're being sarcastic. :c

I'm probably getting a little too worked up but eh, I hate losing arguments.

Also it looks like Roy has Quickdraw and Double Edge Dance. So no Counter?

EDIT: Nah I'm just crazy.

I wasn't being sarcastic

I don't know all the technical details but I'll give you the main point: The Clone Engine allows you to create duplicate files of any character in the game so instead of 39 characters you can have up to 78. From there you can change the model and moveset using an editor. Basically it allows you to add characters to the game without having to remove any existing characters.
What the Clone Engine is essentially is a way to add new characters to Brawl. However, it's very difficult to use because you're not copying a character's files over like I originally thought, you're actually creating a brand-new character. The model, animations, and move data all have to be made from scratch apparently and before you can even do THAT, you have to make sure that adding the new character in the first place won't break the game. Plus, you have to edit that data every time you add a new character using the Engine. Roy was somewhat simple since the devs were able to fix his model to Marth's skeleton allowing them to copy Marth's animations onto Roy thus alleviating much of the hard work. Mewtwo is only going to be much harder for them to work with. They can't make new projectiles either so I doubt it would be possible to add Mega Man as he appears in Smash 4... or SSF2 for that matter.


Whether you're being sarcastic or not, the devs actually have hinted at including Pichu in the game. They even confirmed that Mewtwo would be returning a long time ago IIRC.

I know most of that but


That's what I was looking for, thanks. So the files can only be duplicated once? In other words, what prevents them from making a third copy of each character, making 117 slots?

Regardless, that's a f*** awesome step forward.

So, now with Roy's reveal we can start asuming that the other missing 4 from melee will return as web?? I can see Pichu and Mewtwo returning, but not sure about Doc and Young link, since Mario and T. Link got some traits from the respectively on their rework (according to their character pages from project m website)

But anyway, i love Roy's adition. I will consider getting the next patch of project M for my brawl (they need to reveal Yoshi and then would be insta-download, )

Well, that's just a guess. I'm not sure if there's anything preventing them from making a third copy of each character but if that was the case, it would be awesome.

I know that argument, and I understand perfectly your stance.
However, let's not forget were talking about the 10th place. Essentially, a niche position on the current metagame.
There is no definitely objectively good stance among the Smash community itself when it comes to Mid tiers and below. And Pikachu has the current metagame. It may be just Axe, but he has it. Wheareas Samus most likely won't for a very long time, even if by past datas she has done far better.
Again I won't argue that Pika is better or not. Especially with the lack of Top players argument (which is unsrprisingly fairly common for Mid tiers, looking at you Doc), which is definitely true but, we can't do a thing about this.
Samus may very well be better, but the metagame has so much advanced without her, she is herself reduced to speculation until she proves herself again.

That's not my stance. That's what the current tier list shows.
Axe may be alone, but he has demostrated what Pika can do at Top level. In the current metagame.
Now, if only we had another Axe...

he hasn't shown what pika can do at top level, he's shown what he can do with pika at top level

i know nothing about this s*** and even i can tell you're missing the point