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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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Ah I gotcha. I do have people helping, its just that their schedules are quite busy and its hard for them to make time. Until the characters that have been assigned are the only ones left, I won't do those characters.
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:37 am |
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Huey
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:26 pm Posts: 364 Location: Frank Block wit mah f#ckin gang Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Huey
Currently Playing: Smash 4. Waiting for Beta. They better code in Bidou...
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What is the benefit of knowing the frame data of your character? It just looks like mumbo jumbo to me.
_________________ I hate you all. Except you. I like you.
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:42 am |
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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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While it isn't necessary to achieve a higher level of play, most players do take the time to learn this stuff. Also, I wouldn't say that knowing the absolute value of any statistic is important (like, you don't need to know EXACTLY when BBM's bombs level up, you already have a good idea), but using these to improve one's game is possible. It's useful for knowing what are your good options, as well as figuring out what is possible. For example, I can tell you that Fox's fastest options out of his shield are shine and grab, both frame 4. I can also tell you that Zelda's fastest OOS option is her utilt, because it comes out on frame 2 (and you can cancel jumpsquat with utilt, I think this might be the fastest OOS option in the game if the jump+a inputs are done at the same time). This data can also be used to determine advantage on shield. Just consider things like landlag, endlag, frame spent midair, hitlag (for both ppl), and shieldstun. You can also use this knowledge to determine what OOS options you should be looking out for. You can look at other character's to find out where a move's weakness lies with respect to frame data. You may also have an idea of how fast your aerials are, but learning how fast they really are can make a world of difference when trying to optimize. For example, Peach's dair comes out faster than her nair, so perhaps trying to aerial out of a combo would be easier with dair rather than nair. Here, I'll quote from a basic frame data guide on shoryuken.com: | | | | ilitirit wrote: Wait wait wait... that's way too much info for me! And how am I supposed to remember all these numbers anyway!? The important thing is to understand the concepts and implications, not remember the actual numbers. Frame data is usually just used as a reference. Very few players try to memorize all the numbers. Some of the data sticks in your head because it gets discussed a lot on forums etc, but not many people out there actually even know the all frame data for the characters they main. And even if you could memorize all the numbers, it's not going to help you in a match. You're not going to sit there and manually count the frames of various attacks.
So why even bother with frame data at all then? It's completely possible to play without even knowing an iota of frame data. Some top players get by without even considering it. In fact, in the good 'ol days playing "by feel" was the only way people played, and there are many legendary players that come from that era. Frame data makes it easier to reason about and discuss certain things though. Instead of saying an attack is "quick", you can say it's a 3 frame move and everyone will know what you're talking about. It also takes out a lot of the grunt work. Instead of going through your entire arsenal trying to figure out which move you can use to punish after you blocked your opponent's cr.hk, you can just look up the relevant frame data and have the answer in a few seconds.
OK, I think I understand. But why measure in frames? If you're measuring duration why not use something like milliseconds? Because it's easier to reason and talk about a 4f move than a 66.67ms move
Makes sense. So basically I can use the frame data to figure out combos and stuff? Yep, but you can also use the frame data to easily figure out which moves can punish what, how safe/unsafe certain moves are, and check how much invincibility a move has. This information is usually included as a note or comment. eg. The note: "1~4f invincible, 5~16f lower body invincibility" for Ryu's HP Shoryuken means that it's invulnerable to normal attacks from frame 1 to 4, and the lower part of his body is invincible from frame 5 to 16. Again, you don't have to memorize these numbers, but given this information it's pretty easy to figure out that even if your opponent is able to attack with a poke or something a few frames before you are, you can do an HP Shoryuken to beat them because it has so many invincibility frames. | | | | |
It's pretty abstract stuff, but it's still relevant enough to be useful for a match. Another example would be knowing that DK's upB has super armour on startup, so if you buffer it on wakeup you might be able to catch your opponent with it if they are slow on their tech chase.
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:31 am |
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Huey
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:26 pm Posts: 364 Location: Frank Block wit mah f#ckin gang Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: Huey
Currently Playing: Smash 4. Waiting for Beta. They better code in Bidou...
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Wow, I never even thought of that. Gonna go study Lloyd right now lol All of that was very useful info. Thanks man edit: :') Lloyd isn't crossed off yet
_________________ I hate you all. Except you. I like you.
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Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:54 am |
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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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UPDATE: Black Mage, Goku, and Samus have been finished. You can check out their data from the link in the OP.
Thanks to Dark Ermac for getting most of BM's data for me.
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:04 pm |
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Gemini
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:19 pm Posts: 1422 Location: Canada Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: ShadowAssasin2600
Skype: chaoticshadow50
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I'm still waiting for the matchup chart..
_________________Mains and
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Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:50 am |
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scumbag
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:29 am Posts: 114 Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: scum
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Are you planing on finishing this chart lol. I haven't seen a single update in months
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Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:48 am |
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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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I do want to, but it's tedious and I have school and now a job lol. I have Yoshi done (minus shieldstun data), and DE has a couple of new characters that I just need to transcribe. Glad to hear tho that someone actually looks at this tho lol, I was worried that everyone was going to ignore it. Tbh it doesn't surprise me that people would since it is unfinished, but...
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:13 pm |
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WRXJoey
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:32 pm Posts: 496 Location: California Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
MGN Username: WRXJoey
Currently Playing: osu!
Waifu: yes
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we're always watching
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Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:29 am |
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Gemini
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:19 pm Posts: 1422 Location: Canada Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: ShadowAssasin2600
Skype: chaoticshadow50
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What if SSF2 Beta after this project finishes.... gg
_________________Mains and
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Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:35 pm |
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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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Beta jokes featuring this now? I need to get off the slack chat and finish this then
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:48 pm |
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Gemini
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:19 pm Posts: 1422 Location: Canada Country:
Gender: Male
MGN Username: ShadowAssasin2600
Skype: chaoticshadow50
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lol, good luck
_________________Mains and
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Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:51 pm |
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Ninjawarrior93
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:09 am Posts: 135
Gender: N/A
MGN Username: Ninjawarrior93
Currently Playing: SSF2
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frame data project is bae
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Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:47 am |
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goml
BR Member
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:22 pm Posts: 1448
Gender: Female
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For peach, you should probably put down what frame she officially has the turnip. Unless it IS frame 11 and I'm triping
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Wed May 25, 2016 9:44 am |
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Starkiller
SSF2 Developer
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:47 pm Posts: 2316 Location: BC Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Complacency breeds weakness. My opponents won't stop getting stronger, neither will I.
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Peach officially has the turnip on frame 8, but you can't do anything for another 3 frames thanks for pointing out that this little detail is missing.
_________________Men that are trapped by the chains of "maybe" can never reach their dreams! The weak are washed away by the tides of fate. The strong drink it up. No matter the man, we all wear masks. Whether it be over our faces or over our hearts.Youtube: NinjaLobsterStudios Stream: twitch.tv/ninjalobster
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Wed May 25, 2016 2:24 pm |
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