damn... so jab 2 and 3 are essentially useless. ah well - that's good to know.
this is why we have frame data people.

I guess good shield pressure is spaced nairs/strong fairs/late uairs and then dash away to bait out an option then?
can't see many brute force options for shield pressure other than jab, which doesn't work unfortunately.

Jab 3 still has some promise since, according to you and JayVoltage, it actually combos into stuff on-hit. I'll look into it a little more but jab2 is the worst haha.

But think about it, if Falcon did have a brute force way to beat shieldgrabs then he would become a lame character like Fox /s

The dedication.....it puts a tear on my eye....

How useful is The Gentleman in ssf2? I barely see any falcon player use it, so I figured there really is no use for it.

we were just talkin bout that Z - conclusion is that it's not very useful.

I use it every game though ;~; But I guess I should clarify when I do use it. I'll use it on mid-to-low percent where I think a grab follow up is guaranteed but I'll stop when percentage is too high. Also, connecting the knee hit of the jab will need at least some amount of spacing since if you're too far away, the last hit will miss which is punishable.

And like Phoenix said, more knock back for the move would be a great welcome

Apparently, Raptor Boost has 2 different hitboxes associated with it. The first hit does 1%, while the second does 7%.

Other information:

Grounded Raptor Boost
hitbox 1:
1% damage
-1 priority
0 hitstun (self and enemy)
-1.1 hitlag
45 degree angle (non-reversible)
0 power
0 knockback constant
applies burn effect
bypasses shield

hitbox 2:
7% damage
4 priority
1 hitstun (enemy only)
90 degree angle
78 power
65 knockback constant
activates burn effect

Aerial Raptor Boost
hitbox 1:
1% damage
-1 priority
4 hitstun (enemy only)
10 degree angle
0 power
35 knockback constant
applies burn effect
bypasses shield

hitbox 2:
7% damage
4 priority
4 hitstun (self and enemy)
270 degree angle
60 power
70 knockback constant
activates burn effect
does not bypass shield

In other words, it's possible to hit an opponent through their shield with either version of the attack, as long as they get hit by that first hitbox.

No matter how hard I try, if they are shielding I can't get Raptor Boost to hit at all (not even the 1%). It is probably just there to check that the attack activates on-shield.

All that info in one document, and I dont even want to know how long it took to figure out the frame data and stuff... We really need more of these guides. Id prefer Tails/Pikachu/Ness guides (Why would I have that opinion )

Sorry for the shameless self advertising, but I will be doing a Sora guide soon. This is going to be interesting.

I'm gonna make this more of a community thing, so I need some Sora mains to input.


Also, this guide is awesome, may pick up Falcon soon.

And Welcome Back Skailler.

wouldn't recommend looking in the code for attack data since you're only looking at what the attack has as stats when it's loaded. attacks get modified on the fly inside of the attacks themselves and you can't see when a hitbox itself is actually used

So there's no line of code on specific frames that instantiates a rectangle for collision checking purposes (or whatever you guys do) to be easily found? I guess that makes sense why it would be annoying for even you guys to try and keep an up-to-date database of all frame data.

However, it still provides some useful information, like KB angle, base KB, and priority. It's important to check in-game in addition to looking into the code to get all of the pieces of the picture.

back here for like the 20th time or something

quick question about knee

since it has 7 frames of landing lag
and it has only 5 frames of shieldstun
is knee ever safe on shield?

so assuming the opponent has a grab which is active on frame 4 here's how I assume it goes
you knee their shield and enter 7 frames of landing lag while they enter 5 frames of shield stun
after their shield stun has worn off, they input a grab which is active frame 4
since their grab is active on frame '9', you have 2 frames to act before they grab you
so the fastest thing you can do is jab, which comes out on frame 2

in this situation, will your jab beat their grab or vice-versa?
also, does 2 frames of dashing away give falcon enough distance to avoid many shieldgrabs?

of course if they have faster OOS options such as MK's grab or shine OOS, knee is clearly not safe on shield

Turns out, even in this optimal timing, you can't because... jab can't be buffered (at least not out of land lag). So those two frames of opening where you would be able to stick out a jab, one of them has to be spent in idle so that you can even input the jab. Buffered grab comes out before the jab would, and this is assuming the Falcon is frame perfect on that. So no, Knee is usually never safe on shield. The soft knee is even less safe, MK can grab you before you even get out of hitlag lol.

As for a run away, it doesn't work. You see, Falcon sticks his legs out behind him on his run, extending his hurtbox behind him a little bit. I've been caught in "combos" that I tried to run out of but his legs shooting out behind him get hit. Characters with frame 4 grabs or faster (MK) will grab your legs :/

I think this optimal timing into a dash run might work on a character with a slower grab (like Sonic or the tethers) but this is a tight timing to set up anyways. There aren't many timings, and sometimes hitting a shield adds an extra frame midair that usually isn't there.

edit: I can confirm that, in this perfect timing, Knee on shield is safe against characters with grabs slower than frame 4 (there might be something with length of grab, but Falcon moves fast so I'm pretty sure he can outrun that distance anyways).