Fight me man lol.

DAFUQ. What online you be on? Its 1000 narutard spammers, and like maybe a few marths here and there.

One thing I've been conflicted for months about.

What would be better for Mario's Fair: Early part Doc Punch / Late Meteor, or fust the entire move Meteor?

I feel like DocXMeteor would be more optimal in most situations when going to land Fair. But if the entire move was a Meteor, he'd trade a better kill option for super stylish combos potential; I think that would make him way more fun.

I would say the DocXMeteor. It was like that last demo, but the sour spot got weaker while the sweet spot meteor got stronger.

A great finish would be nice, but his combo follow-up could become very interesting his Melee-Fair. It might taking testing to figure out which would a better influence on how Mario plays in SSF2.

I'm also conflicted because I want his Double Fair suicide combos back from the earlier demos. Those were hyped.

Wish Mario was as easy bake as smash 4 in this game

Am I alone in thinking that Mario's Dair is useless? With Nair, you get more damage (if not equal), priority, and you can combo out of it at low percents. Kills at high percents too

Mario's Dair is useless. It's only setups for an Uair, and at that angle, your combo and all your offensive pressure ends there. It isn't the combo extender move that it should be, that's for sure. I've been extensively think about how to improve the way it hits without altering frame-data, but it seem tough to judge without a lot of testing. The best I'm estimating is making it 20/30 degrees forward, lower Base-Knockback with actually Knockback-Growth on the last hit. That at least makes it lead to follow-up like Nair or tilts when Short-Hopped at low percentage, but could lead to Uair strings and potential Fair at higher percentage. But again, that may takes some thorough testing.

Maybe make it similar to the later stages of Ness' Dair. IE; give it strong horizontal angles while also making it trap for a few hits. Weak KB ofc.

It appears to have priority that can deal with certain moves that I tested from. However, the range and agree its not that good.

@masky
Nair is not as a reliable kill move as it was last demo.

First hit dair if you can manage it consistently can jab reset at most percents and can combo into your smash attacks. But timing it for only the first hit is pretty difficult and seems pretty unpractical overall :/

Not really in-depth; just a quick balance list I typed up of the main problems with Mario that need fixing.

Mario Balancing Notes.:

Attributes:

+Increase air-speed slightly to improve ability to change direction in the air better.
+Increase initial dash to mirror Fox's so that it's more similar to his Melee initial-dash and improves his close/mid-range approaching.

Attack balances:

|Jab 1|
+2 more frames of hit-lag on each hit of jab-combo to at least able to frame-trap into grab (currently, Jab has a 5-frame disadvantage, which is enough time for opponents to jump or mash out the string with an attack).

|Down-Tilt|
+ Change KB angle to 80 degrees upward to better setup for ground links at low percent, and air follow-ups at high percents.

|Up-Tilt|
-1 less frame of ending lag, -1 less frame of self hit-lag to better lead to follow-ups (Right now, it has a frame-disadavantage where you can be punished for landing the move, only getting small windows at very specific percent ranges).

|Up-Smash|
- Remove whatever feature is causing Mario to absorb and out-prioritize practically any attack that tries to punish his Up-Smash.

|Up-Air|
+ Lower KB angle. I'm not certain on the angle, but seems to be 55 degrees. Low it to around 30-40 to better setup for Uairs across stage and other aerial follow-ups, much like Falcon's Uair.

|Back-air|
-1 frame less of ending-lag on the move. Would put him on just enough of an even advantage on-hit with his opponents, while making it just a bit faster.

Redrawn hitbox:

|Front-Smash| - Weak hitbox extends to his back.
|Back-Air| - Hitbox should reach pass his shoulders, up to his neck.
|Grab| - Hitbox should be over his hands, arms, shoulders, and all of his upper torso, reaching to his back.

Special Balancing:

|Fireballs|
+ Adjust grounded-Fireball frame-data
- Change knockback angle to 90 degrees. Overuse of Fireballs on an off-stage opponent could assist their recovery.
- Remove Fireball Projectile-Canceling. It's very annoying and too relied on. It would also be unnecessary after his needed rebalance.
+ Instead, make sure grounded Fireballs have the same frame-data as aerial Fireballs. This way he gets to maintain a decent firing rate of throwing Fireballs near the ground, but will be overall slower than repeated Fireball-cancels.

|Cape|
-3 less frames off the ending-lag of Cape would make a great difference in giving Mario's extra time to mix up his recovery and make Cape-Glide actually useful.

|Super-Jump-Punch|
+ Needs to ride up walls. Changes to Tornado as a recovery didn't not justified this nerf as expected. In half of most recovery situations, it's Up-Special or get hit/die. So you go for it, and somehow still get caught on a pixel right beneath the ledge and don't grab it. :sheds tear:
+ Holding back during start-up makes Mario go straight-up. (Other angles can be included with further detail in the future )

With those changes made to Cape and Jump-Punch, it be safe to;

|Star-Spin|
- Make it so Spin-Spin doesn't get refreshed from being hit, only if he lands on stage/grabs ledge.
_______
I don't think Mario needs that much. But this would all clean him up, while maintaining a good learning curve to him.

I would keep the refresh hit from star spin over the priority it has any day.

Made a video on Mario's cape glide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELS399yo8G8

Mario's cape needs a buff. It doesn't even reverse the momentum of the character you cape.



Seriously?