DK can also chaingrab and edgeguard the absolute hell outta Bomberman, though. DK's range eclipses Bomberman's range to the point that it's not even funny.

Bandanna Dee has to avoid a lot more than Bomberman's grabs. Bandanna Dee is good at keeping his distance from Bomberman himself, but not so much against his bombs unless he's in the air. Bomberman doesn't really have to approach Bandanna Dee to begin with: Bomberman's mobility is a lot better than Bandanna Dee's and almost has no trouble running up to Bandanna Dee when he's open. And Bdee being a lightweight floaty makes it really easy to get killed by Bomberman's up-b combos, P-bombs, fair, or up-air. Bandanna Dee still has the advantage of having disjoints, combo-potential and a good edgeguard game, but Bomberman has more things going for him against Bandanna Dee; mobility, kill options, combo-potential, traps, and more priority to his grounded moves.

And Chibi-Robo isn't really that bad. Yeah, being edgeguarded by Chibi-Robo as a Bomberman is a problem, but then that's it. Chibi Blaster isn't really a problem for Bomberman to begin with unless Chibi-Robo's using it to gimp Bomberman's jumps. Outside of that, the worse that the Chibi Blaster can do to Bomberman is to force him into the air, but even then, Bomberman's frame data and mobility is still better than Chibi-Robo's. Not to mention that Bomberman can combo Chibi-Robo pretty hard from the fact that he's a fast-faller and can kill him early due to being one of the lightest characters in the game. Though Chibi-Robo's camping game with the blaster is mostly stage dependent, he can still be kept at bay from Bomberman's traps and mobility.

And yes, Bomberman may have a very linear recovery, but good Bomberman players can survive for a really long time if they can maintain stage control and stay at the middle of said stage.

Did you just look at Chibis wiki article before typing this or did you actually think of that yourself

Chibi definetly beats BBM handily. Blaster interrupts bomb charge, shutting off access to mid/P Bombs entirely without Chibi being half a stage away/offstage, gimps BBM really hard (btw, saying that something is only an issue if its used correctly/effectively is not an argument at all), and Blaster alongside Chibis massive disjoints help him win the neutral hard. BBM has mobility going for him mostly, and Chibi can match that easily via dash cancelling anyway.

Punish game is much more even because both characters are combo food for each other, and then theres edgeguarding... Which to noones surprised is super tilted in Chibis favour.

BBMs best bet in the MU is hoping that the Chibi isnt aware of how fast his char actually can be, getting around the arguably best projectile in the game and bigass disjoints and not getting put offstage at all lest lose a stock against one of the best characters at creating edgeguard situations, while also having to somehow avoid any setup into Chibis Up Air (especially potent on BBM because it sends horizontally), which is basically every move the character has. Yeah, no. Once he does get in he can go ham on Chibi, but that applies in literally every single matchup for Chibi and he still beats most characters despite that because his other strengths are just that good. (same logic applies to spacies btw). BBM definetly loses this one.

You are aware that Bomberman's entire neutral isn't revolved around charging bombs, right? In the air, it takes 2 frames for the neutral throw of the bomb to come out. Bomberman can easily obtain stage control in matter of seconds, and Chibi-Robo can't do a thing about it because he can't down-b the bombs unless they explode, but even then; Chibi-Robo can't really use the picked up explosion against Bomberman.

Not to mention Bomberman out-frames Chibi-Robo (the wiki is actually outdated, it still has Chibi-Robo's up-air is still referred as the tweezers). Bomberman's fastest move in the air is frame 3 (n-air and jab) and his fastest move on the ground is frame 2 (jab). Chibi-Robo's fastest attack on the ground is frame 4 (dash attack, and etc.) and his fastest attack in the air is frame 4 (f-air).

Chibi-Robo's Blaster isn't even remotely threatening at all, it takes more than 13 frames to start it up and the attack frequency of the move goes down when you try to aim it. Bomberman can easily react to the blasters and punish Chibi-Robo when he needs to approach. His jump is good, his air maneuverability is above-avergae, and he can fast fall almost immediately to the ground if a beam is heading straight for him.

Chibi-Robo still has disjoints and edgeguarding prowess going for him in the MU, but then that's really it.

Unrelated to this discussion, but that MU chart still makes Bomberman look low tier.

The only matchups he has against what could be considered "meta relevant characters" that he actually does well against are two-three 55-45 MUs (which are defined as being basically good/bad even) against Mario and Falcon, debateably Luffy if you count him. His only other winning MUs are against characters in the bottom 10 on most people's tier lists.


This puts him well and truly in the "niche counterpick" section of the tier list and still renders him very much not solo viable in terms of his overall MUs, especially as he still does VERY badly against a lot of the cast.

If you were aiming to convince people that Bomberman was good, that didn't really work out. That MU chart would honestly put him at around bottom 8-10 on a tier list.

I didn't try to say that Bomberman was good, I just day that people still underestimate him. I'm still trying to further his metagame. Some matchups that I put may look better than they should be.

Except bottom 8-10 is already where everyone rates him. Your MU chart doesn't work in suggesting he's underrated, it more reaffirms the pre-existing belief.

Ah. Well, like I said; I'm still trying to develop his meta game. Some matchups I rated might be rated rated lower than they should.

The thing about Bomberman is. Most characters have fantastic advantage states with much lesser disadvantage states compared to Bomberman. Because of that, Bomberman's Disadvantage State is not only more exploitable but it also makes his advantage state less relevant which also worsens his matchup spread. His issues with being combo meat with a horrendous recovery is too big of a flaw to ignore and it just renders him and inconsistent which is bad in a meta like SSF2. It's less about Bomberman being bad and more about others being good, hence is why many people believe he's bottom 10.

Hi guys! I know I'm late to the party, but after playing with the new version for several hours with friends we've come up with this tier list. Please rate it!

Why in Sam-Hill is Luigi top 2? He's a great character and all, but he's still has way to many bad matchups to be considered top-tier (Marth, Lloyd, Ichigo, Zelda, and even Tails).

Lloyd is too low as well, his b-air can fight off half of the cast and his disjoints overall will compete with the rest. Not to mention he can camp slower characters with Demon Fang. His dash attack is a really insane punish move on ledge as well, it can kill around 76%-ish near the ledge. I'd say he's A to S.

Mario would be at the bottom of B+. His frame data is nice, but his combo game is all over the place. Some of his moves have way too much knockback so it makes them hard to chain consistently, and the other moves send characters at awkward angles which then again; hurts his combo tools.

Chibi-Robo is a solid B+ tier contender. He does have good KO power, solid kill-confirms, great disjoints, a decent projectile to boot (but mostly used when gimping), but he can only do so much because his ground frame data isn't very great and his air mobility isn't really as insane in comparison to the roster to let him approach as easily. You usually find yourself relying on using his slow grabs for kill confirms and really predictable options.

Sora, Kirby, and Naruto should be a lil' bit higher. Kirby has kill confirms all over the goddamned place, really good KOing prowess to boot, a constant grab hitbox that beats attacks (like Wario's) and beats the absolute crap out of fast-fallers, but he still has trouble with disjoints. Sora's combo and punish game is pretty good, but he does have a little trouble winning neutral because his disjoints aren't really that well-ranged nor are they that fast, but the bounce that he receives when landing n-air, u-air, and d-air can carry you to a nearby blastline if you're not careful. Naruto's the least effective of the trio, but he's still a solid all-rounder character that fits a bunch of playstyles and has no trouble executing them all. His recovery is among one of the worst in the game, imho (equal to Bomberman's) and he's too average statistically-wise to compete with the top-tiers.

Bomberman is hella underestimated, he has the potential to kill as little as 35% with p-bomb to up-b depending on the stage and the victim's distance, but can also get killed as early because of his bad recovery. But if you utilize your bombs with constant stage control and decent positioning, you'll almost never be thrown off the stage. His grab-game is among one of the best in the game, with a grab confirm to f-air which works at almost any percent so long you can read DI. P-bombs are a lightweight's and a floaty's worst nightmare. I've killed Zeldas at 55% on Yoshi Story. He has decent frame data all-around, with most of his aerial moves being frame 3 and his grounded moves being 4-6. However, he is combo food, doesn't do well up-close to disjoints, and has mediocre-range to boot. All these problems are usually exploited, but he isn't really inherently the bad character the community makes him out to be. Small bombs are great for cancelling out Tails' bots (which is pretty huge), has enough hitstun to lead into any aerial regardless of percent. His aerial side-b can reflect projectiles (impractical, but hilarious when pulled off), has above average mobility (slightly faster than Falco) (2nd best air speed acceleration, so he reaches his maximum airspeed the soonest compared the the roster), and can duck out both of the spacie's lasers. Think of him as the Little Mac of SSF2. He's at the dead middle of A- in your tier list.

Captain Falcon is a good character, but he has way too many bad matchups against projectile users and disjointed hitboxes to be anywhere he is atm. He's an honest character, but is outdone by almost half of the roster. Zero Suit Samus is also like this to an extent, but her recovery is much worse because tether recoveries are among the easiest to edgeguard.

I'd point out more problems, but I don't want to make this post longer than it should be. Reply if you have more questions.

Luigi and sheik should be switched, Peach and Falco should be switched hed, PAC-MAN shoud! be moved to top of a Teir. chili- should be above PAD and Falco, and sonic should be Pixhu Tier.

This is why tier lists are chaotic

Explain coherently on why Chibi-Robo should be above Pac-Man and Falco in any tier list, especially in the same tier list how Sonic's in Pichu tier (the tier that's named after a character that isn't even that bad to begin with).

Akabonba: noted.

Pichu has no range, a terrible recovery above 50%, and has a hard time killing. Sonic can't combo, has weak attacks, and in general has terrible moves (except fair)