McLeodGaming Mafia XIV [Cowboys vs Cattlerustlers]
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JamesClyde
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:48 am Posts: 127
Gender: Anime Girl
Currently Playing: Kingdom Hearts Days, Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded, Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones, Spiral Knights, Megaman Zero 4
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And I can see perfectly that you are using the 'Hitler Built Autobahns'. Basically, this is what it means. 'You did X as scum in the last game I played with you, and you have done it here. Therefore, you are scum.' And you said: You're still acting just like you did last game, where you were scum.
You're tied with Ramsey for the first spot.
Scum(S>W)Ramsey & King Arthur, Pathera, 194
_________________ ~Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:06 pm |
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Terra
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:49 am Posts: 1126 Location: GMT+8. Have fun figuring out the rest.
Gender: Male
Skype: Ask and ye shall receive.
Currently Playing: FE6-8, Radiant Historia, TWEWY
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| | | | Blood wrote: | | | | Terra wrote: I believe you are mistaken, Blood. Since when are we supposed to follow certain "rules"(i.e. the bolded part) over how the game progresses? In fact, there is valuable information to be gained just by analyzing voting patterns on Day 1, especially bandwagoning(refer to my previous posts for examples). In fact, Day 1 is actually better for finding newbscum, since, after all, scum have not gotten used to the game yet, and are far more likely to make mistakes. There is no rule that states that we cannot make accusations Day 1 like how I am doing right now, which is pointing out voting patterns. You're saying that I'm having suspicions based off how someone voted at the start of Day 1. That is unture. If you look at who I think is scum, I suspected them after the Panthera Random Voting incident, which, at least in my opinion, is not the start of Day 1. And if you say that my opinion is not true, I direct you to this page: Relativist FallacyTL;DR-I'm voting based on voting patterns that I've noticed, which are definitely not random votes. | | | | |
Firstly, even though the start of day one is not bound by the rule to have only experimental voting it most likely will always end up like that. This is do to the fact that everyone is a suspect and there is no point in making a serious case against someone until later on in the day. Using the start of day one as a chance to find newb scum is possible, but there isn't really a way to distinguish newb scum from newb player. In other words it's a great chance for townies to find inexperience scum, but it's also a great chance for the mafia to take advantage of new/bad players mistakes. In particular King Arthur is very new to forum mafia (this is his second game with a bit of experience in real life) a mafia could easily take advantage of his inexperience, let's not pretend it didn't happen before.(A spiky green plant comes to mind) Your suspicions on Ramsey are completely un-founded since not only are we not sure of ramsey's play style but his vote was from the beginning of day one and is most likely random/experimental. In fact any votes that happen before things got serious(which is roughly around pathera's random voting post) shouldn't even be taken seriously. Your suspicions on 194 aren't very thought out either. 194 is acting very town like. He's not stating the obvious, he's making deductions based off what other say, and he actually seem like he's trying to move the game forward. The only one of your suspects I'm willing to agree with is pathera because of my reasoning before. | | | | |
I will be answering your post paragraph by paragraph. Paragraph 1(Introduction and Day 1 discussion)-I'm just curious: Why is there "no point" in making a case until later in the day? When you see stupid things happen in the RVS, no matter who does it, you take it, and then you work with it. Upon that is the basis of scumhunting. You also can't assume that newbie players who make scumslips are just completely new to the game. Defending a new player solely on the basis of him being new is a very weak argument, after all. Paragraph 2(Re: my suspicion of King Arthur)-Your entire defense is solely based on the argument that he is new to forum mafia. This makes it seem like buddying if you do not have a stronger argument. Paragraph 3(Re: my suspicion of Ramsey)-Panthera's Random Voting Post was on Page 6. Ramsey's post where he voted for JC outta nowhere is on Page 8. Paragraph 4(Re: my suspicion of 194)-While 194 has certainly been putting out a good amount of information for the town, I didn't really like his exchange with JC over the RVS. He's more town to me now though, thanks for pointing it out. Paragraph 5(Re: my suspicion of Panthera)-It's good to see that someone agrees with me on this. And even then, things in the RVS could happen that make things interesting. For example, in MG Mafia All-Stars, I put a second vote on an inactive player in the hope to spur him into action, but that got me suspected by other people. It's not completely useless to random vote, especially when you can spot dumbtells here and there. Preedit: Aha! The meta argument. May I direct you to a logical fallacy known as the "Hitler Buil Autobahns" fallacy. Your argument against him is solely based on one game where he was scum. For all you know, this could be his town meta, where he plays a very offensive game. That's beside the point though. Unless you can prove that JC has a significant tendency to be very aggressive only when playing as a mafia member, then you cannot make such an accusation. I would vote for you, KA, but right now I've got Ramsey's post to analyze. Prepreedit: Ninja'd by JC.
_________________"With many sighs, they got up, and I followed, for what better way to spend the last week of your life than by watching humanity go about its usual failures?"Sig courtesy of Arthur: eternally grateful.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:08 pm |
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Lightning
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:51 pm Posts: 6300 Location: Florida Country:
Gender: Female
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Oh, I assumed BB was talking about PL's post on page 8 where he quotes a bunch of people randomly voting.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:18 pm |
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Dephius
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:46 pm Posts: 1883 Country:
Gender: Male
Skype: dephius2122
Currently Playing: Dota 2, CSGO, MGSV
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That's not what you were saying at all. You said random votes lead to lynches, even though they don't. the RVS starts discussion, as well as the game, and I believe you're said you're against it. Simply pointless, just like the bolded part of your post. "If I were against voting at all" and "If I was against all voting" is the same thing. This defense is hasty and crude.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:46 pm |
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Dephius
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:46 pm Posts: 1883 Country:
Gender: Male
Skype: dephius2122
Currently Playing: Dota 2, CSGO, MGSV
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EBWOP: Saying that random votes lead to random lynches.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:50 pm |
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Blood
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:49 pm Posts: 594 Location: ???????????????
Gender: Male
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| | | | Terra wrote: | | | | Blood wrote: | | | | Terra wrote: I believe you are mistaken, Blood. Since when are we supposed to follow certain "rules"(i.e. the bolded part) over how the game progresses? In fact, there is valuable information to be gained just by analyzing voting patterns on Day 1, especially bandwagoning(refer to my previous posts for examples). In fact, Day 1 is actually better for finding newbscum, since, after all, scum have not gotten used to the game yet, and are far more likely to make mistakes. There is no rule that states that we cannot make accusations Day 1 like how I am doing right now, which is pointing out voting patterns. You're saying that I'm having suspicions based off how someone voted at the start of Day 1. That is unture. If you look at who I think is scum, I suspected them after the Panthera Random Voting incident, which, at least in my opinion, is not the start of Day 1. And if you say that my opinion is not true, I direct you to this page: Relativist FallacyTL;DR-I'm voting based on voting patterns that I've noticed, which are definitely not random votes. | | | | |
Firstly, even though the start of day one is not bound by the rule to have only experimental voting it most likely will always end up like that. This is do to the fact that everyone is a suspect and there is no point in making a serious case against someone until later on in the day. Using the start of day one as a chance to find newb scum is possible, but there isn't really a way to distinguish newb scum from newb player. In other words it's a great chance for townies to find inexperience scum, but it's also a great chance for the mafia to take advantage of new/bad players mistakes. In particular King Arthur is very new to forum mafia (this is his second game with a bit of experience in real life) a mafia could easily take advantage of his inexperience, let's not pretend it didn't happen before.(A spiky green plant comes to mind) Your suspicions on Ramsey are completely un-founded since not only are we not sure of ramsey's play style but his vote was from the beginning of day one and is most likely random/experimental. In fact any votes that happen before things got serious(which is roughly around pathera's random voting post) shouldn't even be taken seriously. Your suspicions on 194 aren't very thought out either. 194 is acting very town like. He's not stating the obvious, he's making deductions based off what other say, and he actually seem like he's trying to move the game forward. The only one of your suspects I'm willing to agree with is pathera because of my reasoning before. | | | | |
I will be answering your post paragraph by paragraph. Paragraph 1(Introduction and Day 1 discussion)-I'm just curious: Why is there "no point" in making a case until later in the day? When you see stupid things happen in the RVS, no matter who does it, you take it, and then you work with it. Upon that is the basis of scumhunting. At the start of the game, which is basically immediately after the game begins, you literally have nothing to go off of. Also everyone is just so tempted to goof off that it's simply not effective to make a good case until things get real. Once a certain amount of people actually start playing that's when you can safely begin your case without any annoying factors of goofing off or jokes. You might have taken things seriously after page 6, but I think a better time for taking thing seriously was page 8 after pathera's postYou also can't assume that newbie players who make scumslips are just completely new to the game. Defending a new player solely on the basis of him being new is a very weak argument, after all. I'm just saying that someone who is clearly new to the game shouldn't be an actual suspect until they mess up multiple times. Sure if it was an experience veteran then I would make them a suspect, but new players should have a little leniency until they really screw up. Trust me looking back on mafias in the past many newbies have gotten lynch solely based off of one or two screw ups.Paragraph 2(Re: my suspicion of King Arthur)-Your entire defense is solely based on the argument that he is new to forum mafia. This makes it seem like buddying if you do not have a stronger argument. Like I said a little leniency to avoid the newbie factor.Paragraph 3(Re: my suspicion of Ramsey)-Panthera's Random Voting Post was on Page 6. Ramsey's post where he voted for JC outta nowhere is on Page 8. When talking about pathera's random voting post I was referencing page 8. That's when things can actually safely be seen as plausible. Pathera did make a post before, I admit, but it wasn't very relevant until page 8.Paragraph 4(Re: my suspicion of 194)-While 194 has certainly been putting out a good amount of information for the town, I didn't really like his exchange with JC over the RVS. He's more town to me now though, thanks for pointing it out. Your welcome.Paragraph 5(Re: my suspicion of Panthera)-It's good to see that someone agrees with me on this. | | | | |
Answers in bold.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:33 pm |
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TOWK
Site Moderator
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:12 pm Posts: 1226 Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Dota 2, BoI: Rebirth, Fallout 4, Bloodborne, MGSV
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Arthur, do you have any other evidence against JC aside from his meta? What are your reads on everyone else?
_________________MAFIA'S BACK COME JOINAMA
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:35 pm |
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Savvy, eh?
BR Member
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:03 am Posts: 752 Location: Rising up to become the one they all fear. Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
MGN Username: Savvy, eh?
Currently Playing: Savvy's Art Academy
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Ok, first off. To anyone suspicious of JamesClyde: If you are using meta as your primary argument (which is already silly, but let us ignore that for now), then you should go back and actually read James' posts in Mafia 12. He was lynched at the end of a short Day 1, so that shouldn't take too long. Now, start reading his posts in this game. You should notice a substantial difference. In 12, he makes hilariously nonsensical, baseless accusations. In this game, his arguments have some meat on their bones. Problem is, most people are just disregarding them because they are presented in a similar manner. This makes him an easy scapegoat for the mafias, which is likely why he is attracting votes.
Now, Panthera. Your last post is yet another in a long series that focus solely on self-defense. I have asked you many questions, none of which have been answered. Why is that? Are you stalling for time, hoping that I will forget? You have yet to contribute any positive material, and I feel this is reason enough to Vote: Panthera Leo.
@Ramsey: Next time you post, could you please quote yourself to demonstrate your reasoning for voting JamesClyde? Thanks.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:06 pm |
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>Andy
Site Moderator
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 pm Posts: 4227 Location: I wish I knew Country:
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Currently Playing: Ninja Gaiden Black, Battle Chasers: Nightwar, Titanfall 2 MP
Waifu: Makoto Nijima
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No, but considering how you were the reason I thought JC was scum anyways, you should have asked yourself that question.. Now that I do go and re-read some of JC's posts in 12, I do see a vast difference. As for my reads on everybody else, they all seem like town. When it comes to you, I'm not too sure, as of now.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:23 pm |
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TOWK
Site Moderator
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:12 pm Posts: 1226 Country:
Gender: Male
Currently Playing: Dota 2, BoI: Rebirth, Fallout 4, Bloodborne, MGSV
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So you admit that you just bandwagoned my vote on JC with little evidence. And you suspect me based on my semi-serious vote a very long time ago. My vote was intended to spark discussion, hence the "discuss." at the end of it.
Everyone seems town Arthur? Everyone? I find it hard to believe that's actually what you've come up with this entire game.
_________________MAFIA'S BACK COME JOINAMA
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:38 pm |
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Savvy, eh?
BR Member
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:03 am Posts: 752 Location: Rising up to become the one they all fear. Country:
Gender: Anime Girl
MGN Username: Savvy, eh?
Currently Playing: Savvy's Art Academy
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Ninja'd by TheOneWhoKnocks, but I think this still applies.
Arthur, the issue at hand is not why TheOneWhoKnocks thought that James was scum. We can address it later, but it doesn't matter right now.
Why did you vote JamesClyde? What were your reasons? If you can't answer that, we have a problem.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:45 pm |
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Terra
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:49 am Posts: 1126 Location: GMT+8. Have fun figuring out the rest.
Gender: Male
Skype: Ask and ye shall receive.
Currently Playing: FE6-8, Radiant Historia, TWEWY
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Yeah, please quote and analyze a post where JC is scummy. I would like for you to explain why Panthera is null to you. All you're saying right now is "people are too serious". Well, now you know that people do analyze posts. In fact, you sound over-defensive and over-careful in that bolded part. Everyone seems town lul. In all honesty, this post just sounds like he wants to escape trouble by agreeing with a person that seems town. I shall answer, bit by bit, Blood's argument. I can assure you that after page 6 people started taking things seriously and actually making accusations against people. I believe that you are talking about the Ramsey post when you mention jokes. I assure you, it was not a joke. Compare that post to his RVS post against Lightning and you'll know what I mean. Many newbies who have been town or mafia. Not all newbies who make mistakes are dumbtown, you know. Regardless, you have to notice these things. I reference page 6 and Panthera's horrible post regarding how we should stop random voting. Things became serious from there, as 194 and JC immediately jumped on Panthera and attacked him. Pretty relevant if you ask me. Reads:Town(S>W): Brikmaninoff(very clear scumhunting, good logic), JamesClyde(strong logic, very pressing arguments), Blood(very clear intent), TheOneWhoKnocks(obvious). Null(Town>Scum): Felipe(one good post but nothing else so far), 194(Blood made me see what he's down), kyuubit(some good posting though needs to analyze more), Lightning, Dephius, Cactus, Thomas, Bonsai(tbh quite useless so far), Shoop(lol no scumhunting). Scum(S>W): Ramsey, King Arthur, Panthera. Feel free to lynch anyone from Bonsai onwards. If you need more reasoning/explanation for anyone of my reads, feel free to ask and I will quotestripe till forever.
_________________"With many sighs, they got up, and I followed, for what better way to spend the last week of your life than by watching humanity go about its usual failures?"Sig courtesy of Arthur: eternally grateful.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:15 pm |
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Mr. Shoop
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:36 am Posts: 1048 Location: Made in China Country:
Gender: Male
Skype: mr.shoop
Currently Playing: Force of Will, League of Legends, Yu-Gi-Oh!
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I personally don't want a lynch at all. Day 1 lynching is risky and will likely end in a townie lynch is what I've discovered while playing mafia on Skype. Judging on the amount of analyzing you guys put into each post, it might me different for forum mafia.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:19 pm |
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JamesClyde
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:48 am Posts: 127
Gender: Anime Girl
Currently Playing: Kingdom Hearts Days, Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded, Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones, Spiral Knights, Megaman Zero 4
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You're still avoiding the question. If you don't want us to be scumhunting on Day 1, what exactly DO you want us to be doing?
_________________ ~Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:22 pm |
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Mr. Shoop
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:36 am Posts: 1048 Location: Made in China Country:
Gender: Male
Skype: mr.shoop
Currently Playing: Force of Will, League of Legends, Yu-Gi-Oh!
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I did answer that. I said I wanted a No Lynch. Don't make me run around yelling "#YOLO" man. I'll do it.
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Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 pm |
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