Actually if you space it right Ichigo's dash attack can be safe on shield. Tails's projectile technically has a lot of startup, sure its a stupid projectile that has stupid shield properties, 1.0.3 Ichigo is something to rant about tho, not really 1.0.3.2 ichigo. But Ichigo is a more dishonest character, I mean he has even more stupid range and some of his moves are surprisingly stupidly safe with high reward like jab and up-air. Tail's hurtbox actually not gonna lie is justified for not having one on his tail, Mewtwo used to have a hurtbox on his tail in Melee and he's one of the worst characters in the game just because of it. But Tails still is stupid and I still find him better than ichigo. But what Mac is saying is kind of ignorant both ways.

Um, I don't know anything about , but isn't low-mid tier?
His frame data is a joke, with almost all of his moves being slow and punishable. He's also prone to SDing and getting severely cheezed.

Ichigo is considered by many as top 3. His frame data is A LOT better than you may think, a surprisingly amount of his moves are safe on shield and have very high reward along with Ichigo's recovery having a lot of range to cover up Ichigo. He's a lot more practical than you may think.

bad frame data? pffffff
literally half his aerials are combo breakers, but tails still has better frame data
Also a nair that shieldpokes, free combos, gimps on spacies for free, and more

You just lost all credibility. All of it. And you're apply to the BR with this kind of response? Cha.

Sorry for double post but I'm gonna kill this man bc he obviously doesnt play the game enough to have at least a basic idea of other characters.
There is one word that he keeps throwing around that is triggering me. That word is "safe". He states what ichigo has is safe and bc of that , that makes him dishonest.

Been a while since i heard some bull like that.

Ichigos entire coherent playstyle since his early days have been a risk taker approach to everything. The fact that you put him and safe in the same sentence is beyond me. Ill give you 1.0.3.1 in terms of dash attack. But that was fixed and you havent stfu about that. And you can't compare him to tails in terms of frame data or anything of the sort. Lets not forget about tails hurtboxes. Practically untouchable to any character that relies on sh aerials for combos or kill moves.

And let me give you a little back story mr.ijustjoinedinbeta, Ichigo has been my main for 5 years. I mained him back when he was the last of the midtiers. Back when he was the slowest f*** in ssf2 behind wario. back when his frame data was 100% garbage. And I'm not going to abandon him so easily. This is why i give lenience to tails players who have played tails for the longest, just like chaos has. So, sir, there is nothing hypocritical about s***, and at least have a basic understanding of the character b4 stepping to someone who has near 5 years expirence with him.

While I am not a top level player, I at least have an understanding of each character and how they work, the issue with ichigo is the fact that he has a heavy sword fighter archetype like 9b except without the flaws as in bad frame data and especially SPEED, that is why I consider Beta Ichigo to be even more poorly designed than Tails. Ichigo is the 9th fastest character in the game (Well in 1.0.2 but he didn't get nerfed in speed so it still stands). I get that you are a 9b ichigo main, I emphasize that. I'm sure your reasoning towards maining ichigo is fine. But denying the fact that ichigo is now stupid is where ignorance comes from. Ichigo lost what made him ichigo a long time ago, hell an Ichigo main (RoyK (A 9b ichigo main and ranked 7th so far on Smashladder, may not be a tournament player but credible enough) at least has awareness of how different ichigo is and how much more dishonest and dumb he is. Like if Chaos0 denied tails being that good because e mains tails even though he has played tails since 9b, I would give the same response.

On my post I was referring to your previous complain about back when I complained about 1.0.3.1 dash attack, not ichigo now with his dash attack. While Ichigo's frame data isn't superior to tails, but some of his moves have stupidly good frame data that are essential to his kit along with ichigo being designed as a big sword fighter with SLOW frame data, but without the slow part and the fact that he's really fast, that is just bad design. Sure 1.0.3.2 tails is badly designed, but I can understand some design decisions. The lack of a hurt box on tails's well, tails was probably a response to how unviable melee mewtwo was. Mewtwo's hurt box on his tails was probably one of the very few reasons towards his low/bottom tier placement and mcleodgaming doesn't want that.

Your a 9b ichigo main, great have a cookie. Heres your medal and the ability to defend yourself for maining a future top tier that you deny as a top tier CURRENTLY. If you just mained ichigo since 9b and still play him in beta thats fine, but you should have been aware of how ichigo is structured now in beta and why he's poorly designed in Beta compared to 9b. RoyK realizes that fact and I respect him because of that. The fact that you denied how good ichigo is just from main bias-ness 9b ichigo main or not.

You still dont see what I'm referring to. I never said ichigo wasnt stupid. What you are trying to say is that Ichigo is more broken than tails, which is an obvious untruth. So i easily tell you and you divert course and say this? You don't have a basic understanding of the character, stop acting as if you do.

But you consistently defended ichigo for everything, hell you defended 1.0.3.1 dash attack back then. Ichigo isn’t necessarily more “broken” or better than tails, but he is worser designed. And yes I do have a basic understanding of the character.

skimmed a bit but ichi has everything you want in a char, huge disjoints, great combo game, lots of kill power, fast asf and got a super safe recovery. He beat tails in 9b, and beats him in beta too

as for tails mains gettin good, like skai said people like you make it hard for those tails players - idk if anybody left tailscord when it got raided but mans really blew up my phone when i was tryna to sleep

Looks like i gotta make another video. Yall srsly don't know the mu

And playridise find when i defended 3.1 dash attack please bcc you speaking lies and dumb s*** is getting annoying.

And you also proved to me you dont have a basic understanding of Ichigo after you told me just f*** now his dash attack is safe. And the fact that you say he has a worse design? You. Dont. Know. Him.

In the great words of Ginger the Chicken:
"Ladies, please, let's not lose our heads."

So if I can summarize...
Tails and Ichigo are both good as hell, character shaming is exclusively for b****, Ichigo's moveset is quite safe wtf, if you lose to somebody 90% of the blame goes to you and not your character choices, with poor MUs (kinda, an MU doesn't entirely determine the outcome of a match) being the remainder.

Quote is isolated, but Chaos0 nailed it pretty nicely. Recovery has a windbox right above it and he basically has a teleport. With regards to your next quote.


Play never said that at all. She was quite explicit in stating that Ichigo had a worse design than Tails, but Tails was the better character.

Peach is a good counter to Tails.
So basically, the invincible mastermind gets rekt by the iconic damsel in distress (who just so happens to be insane in this game.)