We were talking about last demo, but I think its even now.

I personally think it's slightly in Fox's favor now. Jiggs lost her good neutral game and basically has to go for hard reads and perfect followups since she really can't move around as fluidly (read: stupidly fast) anymore. Fox can just dance circles around Jigglypuff and once she's in the air can keep her there. Of course, Fox is now even more prone to Rest setups and juggling with his fast-falling.

Well said.

Jiggs still has dat air priority over Fox though, nair especially wrecks him.

Fox's neutral game is up there as one of the best in this version. He never has to commit to anything. Lasers force approaches, dash dancing gets people nervous, and once he lands a hit he can do a lot of damage. Also shine up smash and shine grab are really good when spaced right. I feel Fox is high or top tier with good neutral game, amazing combos, great edgeguarding, and great kill power. Sure he gets 0 to death and edgeguarded but a good player can over come these like in Melee. I feel that keyboard controls can be somewhat limiting for him.

Fox has always had a good neutral game, but I still don't believe he's top tier, like high B-tier or mid-high B tier. You don't have to approach if someone fires lasers, there are ways to avoid it/take minimum damage such as staying on the ledge, shielding, or jumping over them. Most Foxes don't laser to the point that the game wouldn't move forward unless you approach. Dash dancing from many character gets people nervous (Marth, Lloyd, Sonic, Mario, most of the cast). I will give you that he can do a lot of damage after one hit, but many characters in the game can with the appropriate tech chases and execution. He has good combos and his edgeguarding is above average, but I wouldn't call it great, there are many better edgeguarders (Marth, Lloyd, Peach, Jiggz, etc). Idk, Fox just feels different from Melee, he doesn't quite dominate the cast as well as he does in Melee. Just my opinion, I'm not a Fox main, but I am knowledgeable, so critique my analysis if you choose.

uploaded a couple games vs dettas ZSS, sorry for the booty quality.

Gonna give a in depth analysis of this match (nice to see you again btw, I deleted my YouTube which is why you don't see me around)
1st stock- You started off great. You spaced bairs really well and got some good combo. BUT you got read like a book and the second half of the stock. You need to dash dance and laser camp more when you're ahead. Never force a kill as Fox just wait for your opening. He was using side b a lot so you could have read that and shine grabbed up throw up air to end his stock.
2nd stock- Good read on his ledge jump, quickly you tied up stocks. Again this stock you were winning the neutral game but when he was at 100 you started forcing the kill again just wait for the side b or bait her laggy as hell grab when dash dancing in and out of her range then grab.
3rd stock- You did a good job tech chasing her with shine grab and down throw but you got hit by up tilt for being too close but making that mistake is understandable. At this point though you were up a stock so laser camping and dash dancing would have been optimal but you got punished for telegraphing your approaches. Great edgeguard though, you cover all of her options.
4th stock- Great job punishing her grab but I believe up throw up air then back air is the more optimal punish it does 42%. You seemed a little slow on your side b punishes on this stock. Just grab her and toss her in the air. Also again you were got punished for approaching the same way so she got a bunch of damage and then down smash to fsmash ended your stock. After that you got a nice back air off the smashville platform but if you would have dropped then grab you could have finished the game there. GG though either way good up smash to punish that last laggy move.

@Faceless Void How powerful is Fox's Up Smash? Is it Brawl or Melee strong? Can you give me it's stats (damage, angle, base kb, and growth)?

Fox is quite different from Melee. In inability to wavedash out of jump after shine kills his ground momentum on combos. Heck, the lack of a wavedash kills a lot of ground options he used to have. Granted, I like not being able to wavedash because that's a big element that made Fox top tier in Melee.

Have ye tried a triple JC shine > any aerial?

These guides are outdated, but they are still good for Fox imo. I guess what is here in the videos would be considered intermediate Fox tech now lol (as opposed to advanced).

_Less variation in laser height for SHDL
_Firefox makes Fox stop midair briefly
_DK can easily recover from shine spike
_Shine grabs no longer transfer momentum from shine during the throw
_Fox can actually chaingrab himself now
_Upthrow->uair connects less frequently, use with more caution

How exactly does Fox's up smash work? It's really weird, is it Brawl or Melee strong? There is a hitbox that does 16%, one that does 17%, and one like Melee where it does 18%. Not sure how to consistently get the 18% one, wth is the sweetspot?

As a brand-new Marcus Fox main, got any quick tips or drills for me? I took him up to get a crash-course in tech skill.

Scroll up and watch my v0.9a Fox guides

Thanks for those, but am I seriously the only person who's peeved when it's called "Shine" instead of "Reflector"?

Maybe. I wonder how it got named that, someone somewhere gave it that name and it stuck I guess. Shine might be better word usage because using that particular word suggests competitive knowledge (like calling any uppercut a shoryuken suggests familiarity with the FGC and/or street fighter) and calling it the reflector suggests low level play that only use it like that. I like shine because its one syllable and a few characters shorter.